About machines with corner control...

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Subject Author Date
About machines with corner control... vinny 09-03-2009
Posted by vinny on September 3, 2009, 6:08 am
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There's machines that lower the feed as needed to hold a location within a
tolerance. But....that sux.
The reason is the rpm stays the same.

I think the reason the rpm doesn't change is mechanics, getting a spindle to
ramp up or down takes a lot of energy. But has anybody heard of one that
changes the rpm when it slows the feed proportionitely?

Sounds like it doesn't matter, but these things don't just race to a corner
and slow down, they variably slow down on the way to the corner. And in some
reall jagged toolpath they might be feeding half the feedrate of the open
areas.

If you were milling 1000 parts out of graphite, and your rpm wasn't
relative to the feedrate, as in now it's feeding half as fast but spinning
full speed you will get cutter wear. Anyone who doesnt think so can cut a
few pockets in graphite using a HSS cobb mill. If you get the rpm and
feedrate at the right point that cutter will last years. You spin too fast
and feed too slow that cutter won't make it thru more than 1 or two pockets
before it wears the edges off.

Doesn't sound like a big deal, but in production milling...could mean a ton
of money in cutters.




Posted by g-a-r-y@excite.com on September 3, 2009, 8:52 am
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You are correct. It does sux and it is being addressed. Technologies
such as
HSM, Hardmilling and Micromilling can greatly benefit by this.

Software has tried to work this out but the problem is that getting
the unique
machine dynamics into software is quite an effort. It never gets it
right.
Software doesn't know my machines all that well so it's a rather
complex issue.

The good thing is that it is being address.

vinny wrote:
> There's machines that lower the feed as needed to hold a location within a
> tolerance. But....that sux.
> The reason is the rpm stays the same.
>
> I think the reason the rpm doesn't change is mechanics, getting a spindle to
> ramp up or down takes a lot of energy. But has anybody heard of one that
> changes the rpm when it slows the feed proportionitely?
>
> Sounds like it doesn't matter, but these things don't just race to a corner
> and slow down, they variably slow down on the way to the corner. And in some
> reall jagged toolpath they might be feeding half the feedrate of the open
> areas.
>
> If you were milling 1000 parts out of graphite, and your rpm wasn't
> relative to the feedrate, as in now it's feeding half as fast but spinning
> full speed you will get cutter wear. Anyone who doesnt think so can cut a
> few pockets in graphite using a HSS cobb mill. If you get the rpm and
> feedrate at the right point that cutter will last years. You spin too fast
> and feed too slow that cutter won't make it thru more than 1 or two pockets
> before it wears the edges off.
>
> Doesn't sound like a big deal, but in production milling...could mean a ton
> of money in cutters.

Posted by vinny on September 3, 2009, 9:58 am
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> You are correct. It does sux and it is being addressed. Technologies
> such as
> HSM, Hardmilling and Micromilling can greatly benefit by this.
>
> Software has tried to work this out but the problem is that getting
> the unique
> machine dynamics into software is quite an effort. It never gets it
> right.
> Software doesn't know my machines all that well so it's a rather
> complex issue.
>
> The good thing is that it is being address.

But crank the average high speed mill up a few grand, it takes like a few
seconds and eats up the load on the spindle. As the spindle speeds up
horsepower is lost for that moment, creating another condition of unequal
cutting feeds and speeds.
Slowing down might be acheivable? Thats just a breaking action.

Damn it would be cool to hear a mill wind up and down as it mills. Hell that
would even sound efficient as hell.



>
> vinny wrote:
>> There's machines that lower the feed as needed to hold a location within
>> a
>> tolerance. But....that sux.
>> The reason is the rpm stays the same.
>>
>> I think the reason the rpm doesn't change is mechanics, getting a spindle
>> to
>> ramp up or down takes a lot of energy. But has anybody heard of one that
>> changes the rpm when it slows the feed proportionitely?
>>
>> Sounds like it doesn't matter, but these things don't just race to a
>> corner
>> and slow down, they variably slow down on the way to the corner. And in
>> some
>> reall jagged toolpath they might be feeding half the feedrate of the open
>> areas.
>>
>> If you were milling 1000 parts out of graphite, and your rpm wasn't
>> relative to the feedrate, as in now it's feeding half as fast but
>> spinning
>> full speed you will get cutter wear. Anyone who doesnt think so can cut a
>> few pockets in graphite using a HSS cobb mill. If you get the rpm and
>> feedrate at the right point that cutter will last years. You spin too
>> fast
>> and feed too slow that cutter won't make it thru more than 1 or two
>> pockets
>> before it wears the edges off.
>>
>> Doesn't sound like a big deal, but in production milling...could mean a
>> ton
>> of money in cutters.



Posted by Joe788 on September 3, 2009, 11:19 am
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> =A0There's machines that lower the feed as needed to hold a location with=
in a
> tolerance. But....that sux.
> =A0The reason is the rpm stays the same.
>
> I think the reason the rpm doesn't change is mechanics, getting a spindle=
to
> ramp up or down takes a lot of energy. But has anybody heard of one that
> changes the rpm when it slows the feed proportionitely?
>
> =A0Sounds like it doesn't matter, but these things don't just race to a c=
orner
> and slow down, they variably slow down on the way to the corner. And in s=
ome
> reall jagged toolpath they might be feeding half the feedrate of the open
> areas.
>
> =A0If you were milling 1000 parts out of graphite, and your rpm wasn't
> relative to the feedrate, as in now it's feeding half as fast but spinnin=
g
> full speed you will get cutter wear. Anyone who doesnt think so can cut a
> few pockets in graphite using a HSS cobb mill. If you get the rpm and
> feedrate at the right point that cutter will last years. You spin too fas=
t
> and feed too slow that cutter won't make it thru more than 1 or two pocke=
ts
> before it wears the edges off.
>
> Doesn't sound like a big deal, but in production milling...could mean a t=
on
> of money in cutters.

The key is to use a toolpath that doesn't make sharp corners, so the
machine doesn't *have* to slow down. I would tell you to just use the
Dynamic Mill toolpath, but NX doesn't have it, or anything
comparable.....

Posted by Joe788 on September 3, 2009, 4:28 pm
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e:
> >> =A0There's machines that lower the feed as needed to hold a location w=
ithin a
> >> tolerance. But....that sux.
> >> =A0The reason is the rpm stays the same.
>
> >> I think the reason the rpm doesn't change is mechanics, getting a spin=
dle to
> >> ramp up or down takes a lot of energy. But has anybody heard of one th=
at
> >> changes the rpm when it slows the feed proportionitely?
>
> >> =A0Sounds like it doesn't matter, but these things don't just race to =
a corner
> >> and slow down, they variably slow down on the way to the corner. And i=
n some
> >> reall jagged toolpath they might be feeding half the feedrate of the o=
pen
> >> areas.
>
> >> =A0If you were milling 1000 parts out of graphite, and your rpm wasn't
> >> relative to the feedrate, as in now it's feeding half as fast but spin=
ning
> >> full speed you will get cutter wear. Anyone who doesnt think so can cu=
t a
> >> few pockets in graphite using a HSS cobb mill. If you get the rpm and
> >> feedrate at the right point that cutter will last years. You spin too =
fast
> >> and feed too slow that cutter won't make it thru more than 1 or two po=
ckets
> >> before it wears the edges off.
>
> >> Doesn't sound like a big deal, but in production milling...could mean =
a ton
> >> of money in cutters.
>
> >The key is to use a toolpath that doesn't make sharp corners, so the
> >machine doesn't *have* to slow down. I would tell you to just use the
> >Dynamic Mill toolpath, but NX doesn't have it, or anything
> >comparable.....
>
> =A0 How do you know this?


A little birdie told me.


> =A0 Why call the functionality "Dynamic Mill toolpath"?


Same reason Surfcam calls it "TrueMill", Celeretive calls it
"Volumill", and Cimco calls it "Adaptive Clearing." It sounds cool.


> =A0 And why not just radius all sharp corners in the first place
> if that's what you want?


Because that's not what I want.




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