Re: Lie of the Year

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Subject Author Date Re: Lie of the Year Ed Huntress 12-28-2009  Re: Lie of the Year Strabo 12-29-2009  Re: Lie of the Year Ed Huntress 12-29-2009
Posted by Ed Huntress on December 28, 2009, 12:19 pm Please log in for more thread options > >> wrote: >> >>>Clhuprichguesswhat@aoltmovetheperiodc.om says... >>>> >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>Countries >>>> >>>that have govt run universal care insure everyones healthcare >>>> >> >>>> >> For perhaps 1/3 the cost of what it is in the US. >>>> > >>>> >They may be able to run things at 1/3 the cost, but they don't deliver >>>> >good >>>> >timely health care. >>>> >>>> >>>> >Giving everyone health care insurance is easy ... its >>>> >providing good timely healthcare that becomes the problem. "While >>>> >recognizing that many Canadians believe that we have one of the best >>>> >health >>>> >care systems in the world, the founders of Timely Medical Alternatives >>>> >Inc. >>>> >also recognize that there are some 875,000 Canadians currently on the >>>> >waiting list for referrals to specialists or for medical procedures." >>>> >http://www.timelymedical.ca/ >> >> "Canadians believe that we have one of the best health care systems in >> the >> world" > > You left out the rest of the quotation ... I tried clicking on the cite > address and it worked for me ... it must be your computer or firewall ... > Why just leave part of the quote that seems to favor your argument and not > the whole quote. Here it is again: "While recognizing that many > Canadians believe that we have one of the best health care systems in the > world, the founders of Timely Medical Alternatives Inc. also recognize > that there are some 875,000 Canadians currently on the waiting list for > referrals to specialists or for medical procedures." > http://www.timelymedical.ca/ > > Anyway the quote goes on to say that 875,000 Canadians are on waiting > lists for referrals to specialists or for medical procedures. Here's something from that old socialist's tool, _Business Week_: "Despite spending lots more per capita on health care, the U.S. is often as bad or worse than other industrialized nations in wait times" http://www.businessweek.com/technology/content/jun2007/tc20070621_716260.htm The old waiting-time chestnut has been over-roasted. Here's another: "A Commonwealth Fund study of six highly industrialized countries, the U.S., and five nations with national health systems, Britain, Germany, Australia, New Zealand, and Canada, found waiting times were worse in the U.S. than in all the other countries except Canada." FWIW, I waited four months, two years ago, to get an initial appointment with an endocrinologist. Now I'm after a new one, and I've waited two months, with another month to go. It varies widely by specialty but, as the reports mentioned above show, the US is about the same as most countries that have universal care. Canada is kind of an outlier. The claims about the UK, particularly today, don't really hold up. -- Ed Huntress Posted by Strabo on December 29, 2009, 3:40 pm Please log in for more thread options Ed Huntress wrote: >>> wrote: >>> >>>> Clhuprichguesswhat@aoltmovetheperiodc.om says... >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>>>> Countries >>>>>>>> that have govt run universal care insure everyones healthcare >>>>>>> For perhaps 1/3 the cost of what it is in the US. >>>>>> They may be able to run things at 1/3 the cost, but they don't deliver >>>>>> good >>>>>> timely health care. >>>>> >>>>>> Giving everyone health care insurance is easy ... its >>>>>> providing good timely healthcare that becomes the problem. "While >>>>>> recognizing that many Canadians believe that we have one of the best >>>>>> health >>>>>> care systems in the world, the founders of Timely Medical Alternatives >>>>>> Inc. >>>>>> also recognize that there are some 875,000 Canadians currently on the >>>>>> waiting list for referrals to specialists or for medical procedures." >>>>>> http://www.timelymedical.ca/ >>> "Canadians believe that we have one of the best health care systems in >>> the >>> world" >> You left out the rest of the quotation ... I tried clicking on the cite >> address and it worked for me ... it must be your computer or firewall ... >> Why just leave part of the quote that seems to favor your argument and not >> the whole quote. Here it is again: "While recognizing that many >> Canadians believe that we have one of the best health care systems in the >> world, the founders of Timely Medical Alternatives Inc. also recognize >> that there are some 875,000 Canadians currently on the waiting list for >> referrals to specialists or for medical procedures." >> http://www.timelymedical.ca/ >> >> Anyway the quote goes on to say that 875,000 Canadians are on waiting >> lists for referrals to specialists or for medical procedures. > > Here's something from that old socialist's tool, _Business Week_: > > "Despite spending lots more per capita on health care, the U.S. is often as > bad or worse than other industrialized nations in wait times" > > http://www.businessweek.com/technology/content/jun2007/tc20070621_716260.htm > > The old waiting-time chestnut has been over-roasted. Here's another: > "A Commonwealth Fund study of six highly industrialized countries, the U.S., > and five nations with national health systems, Britain, Germany, Australia, > New Zealand, and Canada, found waiting times were worse in the U.S. than in > all the other countries except Canada." > > FWIW, I waited four months, two years ago, to get an initial appointment > with an endocrinologist. Now I'm after a new one, and I've waited two > months, with another month to go. > > It varies widely by specialty but, as the reports mentioned above show, the > US is about the same as most countries that have universal care. Canada is > kind of an outlier. The claims about the UK, particularly today, don't > really hold up. > Subject: The ratio of board certified, super deluxe, appointment seeking endocrinologists to a general population. Attention getter: I'll bet some countries don't even have an endocrinologist. Not even one. Would you settle for an internist? Applying or comparing national average figures for availability/access to specialists is not appropriate criteria for determining a system's overall efficacy. What if there were only 50 leading or effective specialists for a particular malady on the globe...where do you suppose they'll be located? Endocrinologists are not that scarce nor are they a dime a dozen, but if you'd had a referral citing an emergency condition I'm sure you would have been seen right away. In my opinion, the two factors which can ensure timely access to medical specialists are personal contacts and one's proximity to medical teaching schools. Time of year ranks third. Posted by Ed Huntress on December 29, 2009, 6:18 pm Please log in for more thread options > Ed Huntress wrote: >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> Clhuprichguesswhat@aoltmovetheperiodc.om says... >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Countries >>>>>>>>> that have govt run universal care insure everyones healthcare >>>>>>>> For perhaps 1/3 the cost of what it is in the US. >>>>>>> They may be able to run things at 1/3 the cost, but they don't >>>>>>> deliver good >>>>>>> timely health care. >>>>>> >>>>>>> Giving everyone health care insurance is easy ... its >>>>>>> providing good timely healthcare that becomes the problem. "While >>>>>>> recognizing that many Canadians believe that we have one of the best >>>>>>> health >>>>>>> care systems in the world, the founders of Timely Medical >>>>>>> Alternatives Inc. >>>>>>> also recognize that there are some 875,000 Canadians currently on >>>>>>> the >>>>>>> waiting list for referrals to specialists or for medical >>>>>>> procedures." >>>>>>> http://www.timelymedical.ca/ >>>> "Canadians believe that we have one of the best health care systems in >>>> the >>>> world" >>> You left out the rest of the quotation ... I tried clicking on the cite >>> address and it worked for me ... it must be your computer or firewall >>> ... Why just leave part of the quote that seems to favor your argument >>> and not the whole quote. Here it is again: "While recognizing that >>> many Canadians believe that we have one of the best health care systems >>> in the world, the founders of Timely Medical Alternatives Inc. also >>> recognize that there are some 875,000 Canadians currently on the waiting >>> list for referrals to specialists or for medical procedures." >>> http://www.timelymedical.ca/ >>> >>> Anyway the quote goes on to say that 875,000 Canadians are on waiting >>> lists for referrals to specialists or for medical procedures. >> >> Here's something from that old socialist's tool, _Business Week_: >> >> "Despite spending lots more per capita on health care, the U.S. is often >> as bad or worse than other industrialized nations in wait times" >> >> http://www.businessweek.com/technology/content/jun2007/tc20070621_716260.htm >> >> The old waiting-time chestnut has been over-roasted. Here's another: >> "A Commonwealth Fund study of six highly industrialized countries, the >> U.S., and five nations with national health systems, Britain, Germany, >> Australia, New Zealand, and Canada, found waiting times were worse in the >> U.S. than in all the other countries except Canada." >> >> FWIW, I waited four months, two years ago, to get an initial appointment >> with an endocrinologist. Now I'm after a new one, and I've waited two >> months, with another month to go. >> >> It varies widely by specialty but, as the reports mentioned above show, >> the US is about the same as most countries that have universal care. >> Canada is kind of an outlier. The claims about the UK, particularly >> today, don't really hold up. >> > > Subject: The ratio of board certified, super deluxe, appointment seeking > endocrinologists to a general population. > > Attention getter: I'll bet some countries don't even have an > endocrinologist. Not even one. > > Would you settle for an internist? I have. It's the internist who keeps driving me to endocrinologists. I do it to satisfy her. I hate them, the reasons for which aren't worth going into. > > Applying or comparing national average figures for availability/access > to specialists is not appropriate criteria for determining a system's > overall efficacy. OK. It was an anecdote. I rarely introduce anecdotes. I'm more of a data guy. > > What if there were only 50 leading or effective specialists for a > particular malady on the globe...where do you suppose they'll be > located? Endocrinologists are not that scarce nor are they a dime a > dozen, but if you'd had a referral citing an emergency condition > I'm sure you would have been seen right away. Maybe. It's not the one-time meeting that's an issue. It's the relationship. Most endos in the US are overbooked. > > In my opinion, the two factors which can ensure timely access to > medical specialists are personal contacts and one's proximity to medical > teaching schools. Time of year ranks third. To me, anecdotes are for color, not for supporting arguments. I don't present my personal example as a representation of the system as a whole. For that, it's worth looking at the many studies (mostly narrow ones) you can find on PubMed, or on institutional studies that come from such organizations as the Commonwealth Fund, which is the source of data referred to in the _Business Week_ article linked to above. -- Ed Huntress Similar Threads Posted Re: Lie of the Year December 20, 2009, 8:19 am Re: Lie of the Year December 20, 2009, 8:42 am Re: Lie of the Year December 20, 2009, 8:44 am Re: Lie of the Year December 22, 2009, 2:09 pm Re: Lie of the Year December 23, 2009, 1:05 pm Re: Lie of the Year December 25, 2009, 11:45 am Re: Lie of the Year December 27, 2009, 1:15 pm Re: First Buzzword of the new year... December 30, 2007, 1:01 pm It's That Time of Year Again July 16, 2008, 10:01 am Next year, 11% unimployment!!!! October 5, 2008, 4:20 pm