2000 Dakota head gasket help

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2000 Dakota head gasket help stryped 04-13-2009
Posted by stryped on April 13, 2009, 8:49 am
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Well, been working on this v6 2000 3.9 l Dakota that my brother said
overheated and started blowing white smoke. I have the heads off and
wanted to make some comments and get some advice:

1: This is the first time I have worked on a dodge. I thought the
distributor would need to come out in order to take the intake off. I
took off the mounting clamp for the distributor. I made a mark with a
sharpie on the "plate" that is on top of the distributor base below
the rotor. I made the mark in the direction the rotor was pointing.
(The best I could, it was hard to see back there.) I actually never
took the distributor out. When putting this back together, can I just
aline the rotor with this mark. If it is off a 1/4 inch will it matter
or do I need to do something different?

2: I took all head bolts out and pushrods and punched holes in two
shoeboxes to store them to keep them in order. How do I tell if the
head bolts need replaced? Also, the push rods had a clack coating on
them. DO they need to be cleaned? Also, an old manual to another car
said to put grease on the top of the pushrod the area the rocker arm
contacts. Is this good advice or will it block oil flow?

3. The back piston where I had high compression and was blowing
coolant out the spark plug hole was about two inches from the top. I
felt around and used a mirror and did not see anything wrong. Should I
turn the engine over so I can inspect the rest of the bore? Will this
disturb timing?

4: On this same piston there are two areas where a small "glob" of
metal apparently attached to the piston. In this same cylinder during
disassembly, the spark plug gap arm was missing. They are about the
size of a baby asprin. I could not pry them loose with my finger.
Should I try a razor blade? Is this really bad?

5: I am not sure if I am looking for is right but the head gasket
looked alright to me. There were no "blown out" areas where gasket
material was missing between cylinders or anything. Does this mean it
might not be the head gasket?

6: Lastly, I am going to have a shop mill and crack check the heads.
If they hot tank them, will this mess up the valve seals? Should I
have them replaced? This engine has about 151,000 and ran ok when
disassembled other than the overhweatign and smoke assumed from a
leaking head gasket and anti freeze in the intake. I may drive this
truck if it runs or sell it, not sure.

7: Oh, one last thing, some "leaf" material fell into the engine when
I took the intake off. I vacuumed it as much as I could but did not
get it perfect. Will this be a problem?

As always I appreciate your help!

Posted by aarcuda69062 on April 13, 2009, 9:40 am
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In article

> Well, been working on this v6 2000 3.9 l Dakota that my brother said
> overheated and started blowing white smoke. I have the heads off and
> wanted to make some comments and get some advice:
>
> 1: This is the first time I have worked on a dodge. I thought the
> distributor would need to come out in order to take the intake off. I
> took off the mounting clamp for the distributor. I made a mark with a
> sharpie on the "plate" that is on top of the distributor base below
> the rotor. I made the mark in the direction the rotor was pointing.
> (The best I could, it was hard to see back there.) I actually never
> took the distributor out. When putting this back together, can I just
> aline the rotor with this mark. If it is off a 1/4 inch will it matter
> or do I need to do something different?

The distributor contains the camshaft position sensor, it needs to be
aligned correctly.
Rotate the engine to #1 TDC compression stroke, align the ignition rotor
with the alignment mark on the camshaft position sensor.
(the mark should be obvious if you look at the camshaft position sensor)
Ignition timing is fixed based upon the crankshaft position sensor.

> 2: I took all head bolts out and pushrods and punched holes in two
> shoeboxes to store them to keep them in order. How do I tell if the
> head bolts need replaced?

They do not. If they go into the cooling jacket, the threads will need
sealer (teflon pipe dope) and a little oil on the underside of the head
bolts is advised. Chase all head bolt holes with a tap and blow them
clean.

> Also, the push rods had a clack coating on
> them. DO they need to be cleaned?

It would be a good idea. The rocker arms are lubed via oil being pumped
up from the lifters thru the push rods. Make sure they are clear and
free of debris.

> Also, an old manual to another car
> said to put grease on the top of the pushrod the area the rocker arm
> contacts. Is this good advice or will it block oil flow?

Oil would be fine, if you want to go an extra step, Lubriplate #105
engine assembly lube would be the ticket. Do both ends of the rocker
arms, push rod and valve.

> 3. The back piston where I had high compression and was blowing
> coolant out the spark plug hole was about two inches from the top. I
> felt around and used a mirror and did not see anything wrong. Should I
> turn the engine over so I can inspect the rest of the bore? Will this
> disturb timing?

If the distributor is still correctly installed, no.
The distributor drive engages the oil pump drive gear with a slot, the
distributor will only engage the oil pump drive two ways, correct or 180
degrees off. If you didn't totally mess this up, move the engine as you
see fit, nothing bad will happen.

> 4: On this same piston there are two areas where a small "glob" of
> metal apparently attached to the piston. In this same cylinder during
> disassembly, the spark plug gap arm was missing. They are about the
> size of a baby asprin. I could not pry them loose with my finger.
> Should I try a razor blade? Is this really bad?

Would need to see it. Pry it loose and see if you can identify it.

> 5: I am not sure if I am looking for is right but the head gasket
> looked alright to me. There were no "blown out" areas where gasket
> material was missing between cylinders or anything. Does this mean it
> might not be the head gasket?

Could be. carefully scrutinize the fire ring on the head gasket, that
is usually where they let go.

> 6: Lastly, I am going to have a shop mill and crack check the heads.
> If they hot tank them, will this mess up the valve seals?

Yes, the hot tank will eat anything that is not iron or steel.
Heads off is also a good time to replace the freeze plugs.

> Should I have them replaced?

Yes.

> This engine has about 151,000 and ran ok when
> disassembled other than the overhweatign and smoke assumed from a
> leaking head gasket and anti freeze in the intake. I may drive this
> truck if it runs or sell it, not sure.

On the underside of the intake, there is a plate that seals the internal
part of the manifold from the lifter valley, replace that gasket.

> 7: Oh, one last thing, some "leaf" material fell into the engine when
> I took the intake off. I vacuumed it as much as I could but did not
> get it perfect. Will this be a problem?

No compressed air available to blow the crap away before disassembly?

Being organic, it probably won't be catastrophic...

> As always I appreciate your help!

Posted by Anthony on April 13, 2009, 9:54 am
Please log in for more thread options
09d6eb531729@e18g2000yqo.googlegroups.com:

> Well, been working on this v6 2000 3.9 l Dakota that my brother said
> overheated and started blowing white smoke. I have the heads off and
> wanted to make some comments and get some advice:
>
> 1: This is the first time I have worked on a dodge. I thought the
> distributor would need to come out in order to take the intake off. I
> took off the mounting clamp for the distributor. I made a mark with a
> sharpie on the "plate" that is on top of the distributor base below
> the rotor. I made the mark in the direction the rotor was pointing.
> (The best I could, it was hard to see back there.) I actually never
> took the distributor out. When putting this back together, can I just
> aline the rotor with this mark. If it is off a 1/4 inch will it matter
> or do I need to do something different?

It must be timed back after you reinstall everything. 1/4" will be way
out of time.


>
> 2: I took all head bolts out and pushrods and punched holes in two
> shoeboxes to store them to keep them in order. How do I tell if the
> head bolts need replaced? Also, the push rods had a clack coating on
> them. DO they need to be cleaned? Also, an old manual to another car
> said to put grease on the top of the pushrod the area the rocker arm
> contacts. Is this good advice or will it block oil flow?

Everything should be cleaned. The head bolts are most likely "torque to
yield" and will have to be replaced. "Torque to yield" bolts are good
for exactly 1 use.



>
> 3. The back piston where I had high compression and was blowing
> coolant out the spark plug hole was about two inches from the top. I
> felt around and used a mirror and did not see anything wrong. Should I
> turn the engine over so I can inspect the rest of the bore? Will this
> disturb timing?

Your timing is already disturbed from the distributor being moved. As
long as you have not taken the timing chain off, turning the motor over
at this point is not going to make any further difference at this point.



>
> 4: On this same piston there are two areas where a small "glob" of
> metal apparently attached to the piston. In this same cylinder during
> disassembly, the spark plug gap arm was missing. They are about the
> size of a baby asprin. I could not pry them loose with my finger.
> Should I try a razor blade? Is this really bad?

I would definitely get that off. This will be bad for a couple of
reasons, first and formost is potential interference with the head or the
new spark plug. Secondly, this will create a "hot spot" on top of the
piston and lead to premature ignition, which could destroy the piston and
engine. I would get that material off. Turn the motor over to where that
piston is at the top of the bore. Melt a small amount of plain candle wax
around the piston to cylinder gap, you just want to prevent any chips
from getting down around the rings. Get the metal blob off the piston and
make the area as smooth as you can. You don't want any sharp edges.
After you are done, use a vacuume to clean up the area, then use an O-
ring pick and carefully get all the wax out of the gap you can. The small
amount left will melt off and be of no issue once the engine is fired
back up.


>
> 5: I am not sure if I am looking for is right but the head gasket
> looked alright to me. There were no "blown out" areas where gasket
> material was missing between cylinders or anything. Does this mean it
> might not be the head gasket?

Look for areas where the gasket laminate has separated. Many times there
won't be a large gap, but the layers will have separated. But, it sounds
more like a cracked head to me.


>
> 6: Lastly, I am going to have a shop mill and crack check the heads.
> If they hot tank them, will this mess up the valve seals? Should I
> have them replaced? This engine has about 151,000 and ran ok when
> disassembled other than the overhweatign and smoke assumed from a
> leaking head gasket and anti freeze in the intake. I may drive this
> truck if it runs or sell it, not sure.

You have to have a "head set" of gaskets anyway. This set comes with new
valve seals. With that many miles, provided they are not cracked, I
would just have a full head job done. This normally costs about $75 per
head. They will hot tank em, check for cracks, replace the valve guides,
new seals, new freeze plugs (if applicable), regrind the seats and
valves, check the valves for warpage, check the springs, etc, and re-
assemble the springs, etc.




>
> 7: Oh, one last thing, some "leaf" material fell into the engine when
> I took the intake off. I vacuumed it as much as I could but did not
> get it perfect. Will this be a problem?

Cleanliness is your best friend when doing engine work. Did this material
fall into a water jacket or into the oil galleys? How much did not not
get?

>
> As always I appreciate your help!
>

Yw.


--
Anthony

You can't 'idiot proof' anything....every time you try, they just make
better idiots.

Remove sp to reply via email

Posted by stryped on April 13, 2009, 11:20 am
Please log in for more thread options
> 09d6eb531...@e18g2000yqo.googlegroups.com:
>
> > Well, been working on this v6 2000 3.9 l Dakota that my brother said
> > overheated and started blowing white smoke. I have the heads off and
> > wanted to make some comments and get some advice:
>
> > 1: This is the first time I have worked on a dodge. I thought the
> > distributor would need to come out in order to take the intake off. I
> > took off the mounting clamp for the distributor. I made a mark with a
> > sharpie on the "plate" that is on top of the distributor base below
> > the rotor. I made the mark in the direction the rotor was pointing.
> > (The best I could, it was hard to see back there.) =A0I actually never
> > took the distributor out. When putting this back together, can I just
> > aline the rotor with this mark. If it is off a 1/4 inch will it matter
> > or do I need to do something different?
>
> It must be timed back after you reinstall everything. 1/4" will be way
> out of time.
>
>
>
> > 2: I took all head bolts out and pushrods and punched holes in two
> > shoeboxes to store them to keep them in order. How do I tell if the
> > head bolts need replaced? Also, the push rods had a clack coating on
> > them. DO they need to be cleaned? Also, an old manual to another car
> > said to put grease on the top of the pushrod the area the rocker arm
> > contacts. Is this good advice or will it block oil flow?
>
> Everything should be cleaned. =A0The head bolts are most likely "torque t=
o
> yield" and will have to be replaced. =A0"Torque to yield" bolts are good
> for exactly 1 use.
>
>
>
> > 3. The back piston where I had high compression and was blowing
> > coolant out the spark plug hole was about two inches from the top. I
> > felt around and used a mirror and did not see anything wrong. Should I
> > turn the engine over so I can inspect the rest of the bore? Will this
> > disturb timing?
>
> Your timing is already disturbed from the distributor being moved. As
> long as you have not taken the timing chain off, turning the motor over
> at this point is not going to make any further difference at this point.
>
>
>
> > 4: On this same piston there are two areas where a small "glob" of
> > metal apparently attached to the piston. In this same cylinder during
> > disassembly, the spark plug gap arm was missing. They are about the
> > size of a baby asprin. I could not pry them loose with my finger.
> > Should I try a razor blade? Is this really bad?
>
> I would definitely get that off. =A0This will be bad for a couple of
> reasons, first and formost is potential interference with the head or the
> new spark plug. =A0Secondly, this will create a "hot spot" on top of the
> piston and lead to premature ignition, which could destroy the piston and
> engine. I would get that material off. =A0Turn the motor over to where th=
at
> piston is at the top of the bore. Melt a small amount of plain candle wax
> around the piston to cylinder gap, you just want to prevent any chips
> from getting down around the rings. Get the metal blob off the piston and
> make the area as smooth as you can. You don't want any sharp edges.
> After you are done, use a vacuume to clean up the area, then use an O-
> ring pick and carefully get all the wax out of the gap you can. The small
> amount left will melt off and be of no issue once the engine is fired
> back up.
>
>
>
> > 5: I am not sure if I am looking for is right but the head gasket
> > looked alright to me. There were no "blown out" areas where gasket
> > material was missing between cylinders or anything. Does this mean it
> > might not be the head gasket?
>
> Look for areas where the gasket laminate has separated. Many times there
> won't be a large gap, but the layers will have separated. =A0But, it soun=
ds
> more like a cracked head to me.
>
>
>
> > 6: Lastly, I am going to have a shop mill and crack check the heads.
> > If they hot tank them, will this mess up the valve seals? Should I
> > have them replaced? This engine has about 151,000 and ran ok when
> > disassembled other than the overhweatign and smoke assumed from a
> > leaking head gasket and anti freeze in the intake. I may drive this
> > truck if it runs or sell it, not sure.
>
> You have to have a "head set" of gaskets anyway. =A0This set comes with n=
ew
> valve seals. =A0With that many miles, provided they are not cracked, I
> would just have a full head job done. This normally costs about $75 per
> head. They will hot tank em, check for cracks, replace the valve guides,
> new seals, new freeze plugs (if applicable), regrind the seats and
> valves, check the valves for warpage, check the springs, etc, and re-
> assemble the springs, etc. =A0
>
>
>
> > 7: Oh, one last thing, some "leaf" material fell into the engine when
> > I took the intake off. I vacuumed it as much as I could but did not
> > get it perfect. Will this be a problem?
>
> Cleanliness is your best friend when doing engine work. Did this material
> fall into a water jacket or into the oil galleys? How much did not not
> get?
>
>
>
> > As always I appreciate your help!
>
> Yw.
>
> --
> Anthony
>
> You can't 'idiot proof' anything....every time you try, they just make
> better idiots.
>
> Remove sp to reply via email

I am trying to keep costs down but want to do this right too. Should i
replace the head bolts and have a valve job done?

Posted by Lloyd E. Sponenburgh on April 13, 2009, 11:43 am
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4763-ba81-adcb3080ae48@r8g2000yql.googlegroups.com:

> Well, been working on this v6 2000 3.9 l Dakota

Taking bets on how long this takes...

Figuring from the one-lung-er experience, this should occupy most of the
bandwidth here for at least six months.

LLoyd

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