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Posted by F. George McDuffee on May 16, 2008, 12:11 am
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I am now the proud owner of an Atlas 7B shaper.
for details see
http://www.kinzers.com/don/MachineTools/techman/Atlas%20Shaper.pdf
Some specific question for the group:
#1 -- Is there any place still selling replacement parts?
#2 -- I need tool holders. The American style lathe tool holders
will fit, but is the carbide style with 0 degree built in back
rake or the regular w/ 15 degree (?) better for shaper use? No
HD production shaping projected, just hobby/home use.
#3 -- How [well] does a lathe cut-off [parting off] tool holder
work for a slotter? Enco has these on sale
http://www.use-enco.com/CGI/INSRIT?PMAKA=RW250-1774&PMPANO=0437767&PMKANO=164&PMKBNO=1757&PMPAGE=61&PARTPG=INLMPI
http://www.use-enco.com/CGI/INPDFF?PMPAGE=157&PMITEM=RW250-1774
that looks like they should work.
Any one tried this?
Also the "correct" size holder [3/8 wide] takes a 3/32X5/8 blade,
which are available, but for lathe work I have had better result
with the parallel T shaped blades. The problem is that these
don't seem to be available in the 3/32X5/8 size to fit the
holder. Anyone used the H style blades in a shaper and if so is
there enough difference in performance to bother with? Again
production speed is not important, but ease of set up and use is.
The old shaper books show the use of "goose neck" tools.
Armstrong still makes a "goo sneck" cut-off tool holder [83-213 @
165$US, wrench and one blade included] that will fit, but the
price makes my socks roll up and down.
http://www.armstrongtools.com/catalog/products.jsp?groupID=1176
Anybody tried one of these, and if so is there any difference for
home/hobby use? Any alternative suppliers or used?
I am also looking for both belts guards [left and right side],
the left side "door," the 3/8 square drive "crank" for table
setting, stroke adjustment, etc., the elusive Armstrong #39 multi
position tool holder [or equivalent] and a small swivel shaper
vise.
If anyone has and uses the multi position tool holder, is it
worth the effort/cost to locate, or will a left/right lathe tool
holder work just about as well?
FWIW - I got the shaper from Ron Moore of Oklahoma City. If you
are looking for an older machine, parts for an older machine, or
tooling for an older machine, drop him an email. Nice person to
do business with. ron@mlogical.com FWIW -- he may be able to
give Gunner a run for the money about who has the most "stuff."
Thanks for any leads, information or advise.
Unka' George [George McDuffee]
-------------------------------------------
He that will not apply new remedies,
must expect new evils:
for Time is the greatest innovator: and
if Time, of course, alter things to the worse,
and wisdom and counsel shall not alter them to the better,
what shall be the end?
Francis Bacon (1561-1626), English philosopher, essayist, statesman.
Essays, "Of Innovations" (1597-1625).
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Posted by John Martin on May 16, 2008, 2:19 am
Please log in for more thread options
On May 16, 12:11=A0am, F. George McDuffee <gmcduf...@mcduffee-
associates.us> wrote:
> I am now the proud owner of an Atlas 7B shaper.
>
> for details seehttp://www.kinzers.com/don/MachineTools/techman/Atlas%20Sha=
per.pdf
>
> Some specific question for the group:
>
> #1 -- Is there any place still selling replacement parts?
>
> #2 -- I need tool holders. =A0The American style lathe tool holders
> will fit, but is the carbide style with 0 degree built in back
> rake or the regular w/ 15 degree (?) better for shaper use? =A0No
> HD production shaping projected, just hobby/home use.
>
> #3 -- How [well] does a lathe cut-off [parting off] tool holder
> work for a slotter? =A0Enco has these on salehttp://www.use-enco.com/CGI/I=
NSRIT?PMAKA=3DRW250-1774&PMPANO=3D0437767&PM...http://www.use-enco.com/CGI/I=
NPDFF?PMPAGE=3D157&PMITEM=3DRW250-1774
> that looks like they should work.
> Any one tried this?
>
> Also the "correct" size holder [3/8 wide] takes a 3/32X5/8 blade,
> which are available, but for lathe work I have had better result
> with the parallel T shaped blades. =A0The problem is that these
> don't seem to be available in the 3/32X5/8 size to fit the
> holder. =A0Anyone used the H style blades in a shaper and if so is
> there enough difference in performance to bother with? =A0Again
> production speed is not important, but ease of set up and use is.
>
> The old shaper books show the use of "goose neck" tools.
> Armstrong still makes a "goo sneck" cut-off tool holder [83-213 @
> 165$US, wrench and one blade included] that will fit, but the
> price makes my socks roll up and down.http://www.armstrongtools.com/catalo=
g/products.jsp?groupID=3D1176
> Anybody tried one of these, and if so is there any difference for
> home/hobby use? =A0Any alternative suppliers or used?
>
> I am also looking for both belts guards [left and right side],
> the left side "door," the 3/8 square drive "crank" for table
> setting, stroke adjustment, etc., the elusive Armstrong #39 multi
> position tool holder [or equivalent] and a small swivel shaper
> vise.
>
> If anyone has and uses the multi position tool holder, is it
> worth the effort/cost to locate, or will a left/right lathe tool
> holder work just about as well? =A0
>
> FWIW - I got the shaper from Ron Moore of Oklahoma City. =A0If you
> are looking for an older machine, parts for an older machine, or
> tooling for an older machine, drop him an email. =A0Nice person to
> do business with. r...@mlogical.com =A0FWIW -- he may be able to
> give Gunner a run for the money about who has the most "stuff."
>
> Thanks for any leads, information or advise.
>
> Unka' George [George McDuffee]
> -------------------------------------------
> He that will not apply new remedies,
> must expect new evils:
> for Time is the greatest innovator: and
> if Time, of course, alter things to the worse,
> and wisdom and counsel shall not alter them to the better,
> what shall be the end?
>
> Francis Bacon (1561-1626), English philosopher, essayist, statesman.
> Essays, "Of Innovations" (1597-1625).
I've got a shaper, but not an Atlas. I do know that Clausing can
still supply some parts for the Atlas lathes and mills, don't know
about the shapers. There was a guy selling reproduction cast belt
guards and some other parts on eBay. The Atlas newsgroup should be a
help.
I rarely use toolholders in the shaper. You don't have to worry about
tool height, so holding a large tool bit in the toolpost works fine.
If you want to use a toolholder, either of the styles are fine - just
grind the bit to get the rake angle you want.
The toolholders that are handy are the one that allows you to set the
tool bit at different angles and the one that takes a boring bar for
use in cutting internal keyways or splines. The former is handy for
cutting T slots, dovetails and such. You can get a more rigid setup
than the "boring bar holder" by making a toolpost-type holder that
will hold the bar directly. Both of these toolholders are, as you
feared, pricey. Like shapers themselves - the big ones can go dirt
cheap, but the small ones often sell very high.
The right and left hand toolholders will do almost anything you need,
except maybe get under a T slot. If you need it, you can make one of
the adjustable holders.
Carbide bits are not recommended. They'll chip, as you're always
taking an interrupted cut with a shaper.
I've used a cutoff tool only a couple of times in the shaper. Wasn't
crazy about it. It has to re-enter the slot with every stroke, and
can bang on the edges when it does.
Shapers are a great lot of fun. Just don't get lulled into
carelessness by their slow speed - they are one of the most dangerous
machines in the shop. You'll want to clean off the chips or check the
nice surface with your finger between strokes. Your finger won't even
slow it down. Oh, and those chips are hot.
Welcome to the club. We'll teach you the secret handshake after one
year, as long as you still have most of your fingers.
John Martin
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Posted by Trevor Jones on May 16, 2008, 8:56 am
Please log in for more thread options F. George McDuffee wrote:
> I am now the proud owner of an Atlas 7B shaper.
>
> for details see
> http://www.kinzers.com/don/MachineTools/techman/Atlas%20Shaper.pdf
>
> Some specific question for the group:
>
> #1 -- Is there any place still selling replacement parts?
Try Joe at Plaza tools. Try Clausing.
>
> #2 -- I need tool holders. The American style lathe tool holders
> will fit, but is the carbide style with 0 degree built in back
> rake or the regular w/ 15 degree (?) better for shaper use? No
> HD production shaping projected, just hobby/home use.
The zero rake tool holders are better, but for light use, the HSS rake
tools will do. If you are nervous about them digging in, run the tool
holder backwards, and grind the tool to suit.
I use some larger HSS bits, held directly in the tool clamp.
>
> #3 -- How [well] does a lathe cut-off [parting off] tool holder
> work for a slotter? Enco has these on sale
>
http://www.use-enco.com/CGI/INSRIT?PMAKA=RW250-1774&PMPANO=0437767&PMKANO=164&PMKBNO=1757&PMPAGE=61&PARTPG=INLMPI
> http://www.use-enco.com/CGI/INPDFF?PMPAGE=157&PMITEM=RW250-1774
> that looks like they should work.
> Any one tried this?
Grind a HSS bit as required. Cheaper ! If you really feel th need to
have one, use the shaper to cut the dovetail, and make one.
>
> Also the "correct" size holder [3/8 wide] takes a 3/32X5/8 blade,
> which are available, but for lathe work I have had better result
> with the parallel T shaped blades. The problem is that these
> don't seem to be available in the 3/32X5/8 size to fit the
> holder. Anyone used the H style blades in a shaper and if so is
> there enough difference in performance to bother with? Again
> production speed is not important, but ease of set up and use is.
See above!
>
> The old shaper books show the use of "goose neck" tools.
> Armstrong still makes a "goo sneck" cut-off tool holder [83-213 @
> 165$US, wrench and one blade included] that will fit, but the
> price makes my socks roll up and down.
> http://www.armstrongtools.com/catalog/products.jsp?groupID=1176
> Anybody tried one of these, and if so is there any difference for
> home/hobby use? Any alternative suppliers or used?
Again with the cut-off tool. Save the money for stuff you need. The
goose neck tools were used to prevent dig-in on the cut stroke. A heavy
load on the tool would caue the tool to flex away from the work. For the
most part, you won't load the machine that much, for the times that you
do, a straight tool holder will work just fine. If you want a goose neck
tool, make one.
>
> I am also looking for both belts guards [left and right side],
> the left side "door," the 3/8 square drive "crank" for table
> setting, stroke adjustment, etc., the elusive Armstrong #39 multi
> position tool holder [or equivalent] and a small swivel shaper
> vise.
>
Plaza Tools or perhaps the Sobels, for the belt guards. And Ebay.
Learn to recognize the parts you need. An awful pile of good stuff still
goes up there, that the seller has no clue of the identity of. Scan
through the "Vice" and Vise" listings every so often, and you will
likely see the correct one go by at some point. Then all you have to do
is pay more than anyone else is willing to!
> If anyone has and uses the multi position tool holder, is it
> worth the effort/cost to locate, or will a left/right lathe tool
> holder work just about as well?
The multi position tool holder is worth watching for, but not worth
paying all your toy money for, if you know what I mean. I paid $25 for
one, and figured I got a good deal. Lathe tool holders are fine, too.
Novel thought. Make one.
Cheers
Trevor Jones
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Posted by Gunner on May 16, 2008, 1:32 pm
Please log in for more thread options wrote:
>
> I use some larger HSS bits, held directly in the tool clamp.
thats all I use 99% of the time
Gunner, Logan shaper
Btw...there is an Atlas shaper group on Yahoo Groups. Appears pretty
active
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Posted by F. George McDuffee on May 17, 2008, 12:06 am
Please log in for more thread options On Fri, 16 May 2008 12:56:15 GMT, Trevor Jones
<snip>
> If you want a goose neck tool, make one.
<snip>
===========
If I had a suitable piece of metal "in stock" I more than likely
would. Unfortunately, if you have to [cough -- cough] buy a
suitable piece of metal, it frequently costs as much for just the
material as it does for a complete "part" from Asia.
From comments in this thread and emails, and further reading of
the old texts, it appears that much of the fancy tooling of that
era, such as goose necks, either to allow spring or place the
cutting edge on the clapper box pin center line, were either
"voodoo," a work around for inconsistent material with hard and
soft spots, or production "improvers" to allow deeper cuts,
faster speeds, bigger feed rates, etc. In the home/hobby shop
slower speeds, lighter feeds and shallower depths of cuts are
always an option, with less wear and tear on the tooling and
equipment.
That said, I more than likely will butcher yet another innocent
piece of CDS.
Unka' George [George McDuffee]
-------------------------------------------
He that will not apply new remedies,
must expect new evils:
for Time is the greatest innovator: and
if Time, of course, alter things to the worse,
and wisdom and counsel shall not alter them to the better,
what shall be the end?
Francis Bacon (1561-1626), English philosopher, essayist, statesman.
Essays, "Of Innovations" (1597-1625).
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>
> for details seehttp://www.kinzers.com/don/MachineTools/techman/Atlas%20Sha=