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Posted by Don Foreman on April 22, 2008, 12:50 pm
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On Mon, 21 Apr 2008 19:27:53 -0700, "Michael Koblic"
>OK, here is a supplementary:
>
>I went through a bunch of websites and found:
>
>1) Bandsaws
> a) House of Tools do a Makita "kit" (portaband). Our local store did not
>have one last time I looked.
> b) House of Tools do a band saw on a stand - it cuts 4x6. It takes up a
>fair bit of space, but costs "only" $299.
> c) EBay has a glut of portable band saws of uncertain manufacture - all
>new, all about $60. Would this be a good option if one put in it a good
>quality blade?
>
>2) Dry-cut saws
> a) Home depot sells two dry-cutting saws - RAGE 2 and RAGE 3. The RAGE 2
>looks like a standard dry -cut machine. RAGE 3 looks like a common or garden
>mitre saw but with a TCT blade is said to cut everything (within reason).
>Either saw sells for $275.
>
>The one thing that puzzles me about the dry-cut saw, and could potentially
>be a problem, is that all manufacturers recommend to start cutting at the
>narrowest part of the work piece, i.e. the opposite to band saws. They
>recommend, e.g., that square stock be clamped with one of the corners facing
>upwards, flat stock the narrow side up etc. I wonder how absolute this
>requirement is: If followed, almost no mitre cuts could be done on anything
>with square or rectangular profile.
>
>Does anyone have a view on this (or the items above)? If I could not cut
>mitres I would definitely lean towards a band saw, however attractive a
>cheap dry-cut saw would be in terms of space saving.
If you want to cut solid bar stock >1" sq or dia, a bandsaw would
definitely be the best choice. The cold saw (e.g. Rage3) will do
angles and tubes just fine. It is obviously intended to do miters and
does them well. With a bandsaw you can get some blade wander when
cutting miters while the cold saw blade is considerably stiffer.
Note blade costs and number of cuts expected per blade. Cost per cut
will be much higher with the cold saw. Good bimetal bandsaw blades
are not costly (7 or 8 bux, 3 for under $20) and they last an
amazingly long time when cutting mild steel, ally, etc. The key is to
match the blade to the material, always having at least 2 teeth in the
thinnest part of the cut or you may knock the teeth right off the
blade. With thick stock a coarser pitch cuts considerably faster. A
blade change in a portable bandsaw takes about 10 seconds and no
tools.
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Posted by Michael Koblic on April 22, 2008, 9:40 pm
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> On Mon, 21 Apr 2008 19:27:53 -0700, "Michael Koblic"
> If you want to cut solid bar stock >1" sq or dia, a bandsaw would
> definitely be the best choice. The cold saw (e.g. Rage3) will do
> angles and tubes just fine. It is obviously intended to do miters and
> does them well. With a bandsaw you can get some blade wander when
> cutting miters while the cold saw blade is considerably stiffer.
>
> Note blade costs and number of cuts expected per blade. Cost per cut
> will be much higher with the cold saw. Good bimetal bandsaw blades
> are not costly (7 or 8 bux, 3 for under $20) and they last an
> amazingly long time when cutting mild steel, ally, etc. The key is to
> match the blade to the material, always having at least 2 teeth in the
> thinnest part of the cut or you may knock the teeth right off the
> blade. With thick stock a coarser pitch cuts considerably faster. A
> blade change in a portable bandsaw takes about 10 seconds and no
> tools.
That makes sense.
My understanding was that the bandsaw manufacturers recommend starting the
cut with a maximum number of teeth in contact with the material. But perhaps
I misinterpret the manuals...
--
Michael Koblic,
Campbell River, BC
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Posted by Don Foreman on April 22, 2008, 11:55 pm
Please log in for more thread options On Tue, 22 Apr 2008 18:40:36 -0700, "Michael Koblic"
>
>> On Mon, 21 Apr 2008 19:27:53 -0700, "Michael Koblic"
>> If you want to cut solid bar stock >1" sq or dia, a bandsaw would
>> definitely be the best choice. The cold saw (e.g. Rage3) will do
>> angles and tubes just fine. It is obviously intended to do miters and
>> does them well. With a bandsaw you can get some blade wander when
>> cutting miters while the cold saw blade is considerably stiffer.
>>
>> Note blade costs and number of cuts expected per blade. Cost per cut
>> will be much higher with the cold saw. Good bimetal bandsaw blades
>> are not costly (7 or 8 bux, 3 for under $20) and they last an
>> amazingly long time when cutting mild steel, ally, etc. The key is to
>> match the blade to the material, always having at least 2 teeth in the
>> thinnest part of the cut or you may knock the teeth right off the
>> blade. With thick stock a coarser pitch cuts considerably faster. A
>> blade change in a portable bandsaw takes about 10 seconds and no
>> tools.
>
>That makes sense.
>My understanding was that the bandsaw manufacturers recommend starting the
>cut with a maximum number of teeth in contact with the material. But perhaps
>I misinterpret the manuals...
You're not misinterpreting the manuals. But take that as a
recommendation rather than as cast in stone. Consider: a cross cut
or miter cut on a cylinder starts with a point of contact rather than
a line, right? Ya just start lightly (light blade pressure) until
there's enough of a cut that several teeth are engaging.
When cutting square or angle stock, it works best if you can start it
on a face rather than an edge or corner. It may not be possible to do
this perfectly if the saw is mounted on a pivot as in a mitre fixture.
It still works.
Something like the Rage3 might be the best choice for making lots of
miter cuts in angle or tube, if you don't mind short blade life (175
cuts or so according to the website) and high blade cost. The
bandsaw will be more versatile, blades last well and are cheap. I
have no problem making freehand miter cuts to a chalkline that are
absolutely good enough for weldments -- but they're probably not as
precise as those made with a miter cold saw.
If I were doing a paid job with lots of miter cuts in steel and
productivity and time were more important than blade cost, I'd go
with something like the Rage3.
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Posted by Michael Koblic on April 23, 2008, 1:23 am
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> Something like the Rage3 might be the best choice for making lots of
> miter cuts in angle or tube, if you don't mind short blade life (175
> cuts or so according to the website) and high blade cost. The
> bandsaw will be more versatile, blades last well and are cheap. I
> have no problem making freehand miter cuts to a chalkline that are
> absolutely good enough for weldments -- but they're probably not as
> precise as those made with a miter cold saw.
>
> If I were doing a paid job with lots of miter cuts in steel and
> productivity and time were more important than blade cost, I'd go
> with something like the Rage3.
Wow!
175 cuts per blade?
That is significantly different from that quoted by the other dry-cut saw
manufacturers (Milwaukee, DeWalt) - they are talking in terms of 1000 cuts+
per blade. That does make a difference...
--
Michael Koblic,
Campbell River, BC
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Posted by Gunner Asch on April 23, 2008, 3:27 am
Please log in for more thread options On Tue, 22 Apr 2008 22:55:08 -0500, Don Foreman
>When cutting square or angle stock, it works best if you can start it
>on a face rather than an edge or corner. It may not be possible to do
>this perfectly if the saw is mounted on a pivot as in a mitre fixture.
>It still works.
Id have to dispute that. When cutting angle, I always lay it wide
side down so it looks like an upside down V "^" and ease into the
cut.
It cuts much faster, has better chip clearance and runs cooler.
When cutting a flat or rectangular piece, I generally place a block,
rod or bar under the side closest to the driven wheel, so the stock
lays at an angle "", for the same reason, its cutting and dropping
chips quickly, blade is not in the cut for so long and runs cooler.
Shrug..and my blades last a long time.
Gunner
Political Correctness is a doctrine fostered by a delusional,
illogical liberal minority, and rabidly promoted by an
unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the
proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end.
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>
>I went through a bunch of websites and found:
>
>1) Bandsaws
> a) House of Tools do a Makita "kit" (portaband). Our local store did not
>have one last time I looked.
> b) House of Tools do a band saw on a stand - it cuts 4x6. It takes up a
>fair bit of space, but costs "only" $299.
> c) EBay has a glut of portable band saws of uncertain manufacture - all
>new, all about $60. Would this be a good option if one put in it a good
>quality blade?
>
>2) Dry-cut saws
> a) Home depot sells two dry-cutting saws - RAGE 2 and RAGE 3. The RAGE 2
>looks like a standard dry -cut machine. RAGE 3 looks like a common or garden
>mitre saw but with a TCT blade is said to cut everything (within reason).
>Either saw sells for $275.
>
>The one thing that puzzles me about the dry-cut saw, and could potentially
>be a problem, is that all manufacturers recommend to start cutting at the
>narrowest part of the work piece, i.e. the opposite to band saws. They
>recommend, e.g., that square stock be clamped with one of the corners facing
>upwards, flat stock the narrow side up etc. I wonder how absolute this
>requirement is: If followed, almost no mitre cuts could be done on anything
>with square or rectangular profile.
>
>Does anyone have a view on this (or the items above)? If I could not cut
>mitres I would definitely lean towards a band saw, however attractive a
>cheap dry-cut saw would be in terms of space saving.