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Posted by Dave on April 27, 2006, 7:03 pm
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A thread got started on the bandsaw group regarding coldsaws and the
pseudo-coldsaws such as these;
http://www.dewalt.com/us/products/tool_detail_listing.asp?categoryID=88
http://www.milwaukeeconnect.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/product3_27_40027_-1_278586_281131_189330_362
Can someone who has experience with coldsaws please explain how these
differ in performance and blade lifespan (cost effectiveness) compared
to true coldsaws?
Thanks,
Dave
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Posted by on April 27, 2006, 7:51 pm
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> Can someone who has experience with coldsaws please explain how these
> differ in performance and blade lifespan (cost effectiveness) compared
> to true coldsaws?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Dave
Night and day.
The first thing to look at with any machine tool is the weight- this
tells you a lot, and is particularly informative in this case.
First, consider a standard $150 abrasive chop saw- 40 pounds or so.
With a 15 amp motor, which "develops" 3 hp? so they say, actually
probably more like 1/2hp.
Then, one of these new hybrid saws, with the carbide blade- the dewalt
is 47lbs, with again a 15 amp motor rated at "4 hp".
Sorry, Homey just doesnt believe the horsepower ratings.
Now look at a real coldsaw, like this Doringer- 780 lbs, and an honest
3hp 3phase motor.
http://www.doringer.com/d350.htm
The stamped steel base of the Multicutter is no match for the 500lb
piece of iron that is the base of the cold saw. The vise alone weighs
more than the whole Dewalt. The biggest problem with little stamped
steel vises with 1/2" thread screws is the cutting motion of the blade,
when cutting a miter, is doing its best to pull the workpiece sideways-
so you get funky, off angle cuts, inaccurate and crooked.
The big vise on a cold saw holds the material rigidly in place. The
Cast iron swivel base, which is engraved with degree marks, is quick
and easy to get exactly the angle you want, and then it stays there.
Constant coolant flow makes for no Heat Affected Zone, parts that can
be handled right away, clean cuts, minimum burr.
Cold saw blades last years- I have 2 for my saw, so one is always
sharp, then I send the other, UPS, off to be resharpened, for 30 bucks
or so. In heavy duty shop use, 3 guys full time, a blade can last 6
months to a year between sharpenings, on mild steel.
Yes, the blades are expensive, $165 for my size, (350 mmm) but I seldom
have to buy one. A gallon of coolant lasts years- you mix it something
like 20 to 1 with water.
I cut 2" solid square, or 1/4" round, with equal precision. The blade
speed is so slow, at about 44 rpm, that the danger is minimal- sure,
you can hurt yourself with any tool, but the difference in danger level
between a 2000 rpm carbide blade, and a 44 rpm steel blade- well, the
cold saw will hardly cut thru your glove if you brush up against the
spinning blade- try that with a Dewalt, and you will be counting to ten
using your feet.
As you can tell, I am sold on cold saws. I bought mine used for a
grand, almost 15 years ago. No problems with it in all that time,
except when an overenthusiastic employee actually snapped the 3/4"
diameter, 2 foot long saw handle off at the threads, by pulling down
too hard while cutting steel. No damage to the blade, or the saw, but
the handle broke- this is a testament to the way these things are
built.
Mine is a Haberle, made in Germany, but I understand most of the
current brands are similar highquality German, Dutch, or Italian saws.
Doringers are made in the US.
Yes, they cost a lot more.
But they are built like tanks, and will outlive you. So if you are
planning on making things from metal for any period of time, they will
pay for themselves in the end.
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Posted by Eric R Snow on April 27, 2006, 9:02 pm
Please log in for more thread options On 27 Apr 2006 16:51:33 -0700, rniemi@fidalgo.net wrote:
>
>> Can someone who has experience with coldsaws please explain how these
>> differ in performance and blade lifespan (cost effectiveness) compared
>> to true coldsaws?
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Dave
>
>Night and day.
>The first thing to look at with any machine tool is the weight- this
>tells you a lot, and is particularly informative in this case.
>First, consider a standard $150 abrasive chop saw- 40 pounds or so.
>With a 15 amp motor, which "develops" 3 hp? so they say, actually
>probably more like 1/2hp.
>
>Then, one of these new hybrid saws, with the carbide blade- the dewalt
>is 47lbs, with again a 15 amp motor rated at "4 hp".
>
>Sorry, Homey just doesnt believe the horsepower ratings.
>
>Now look at a real coldsaw, like this Doringer- 780 lbs, and an honest
>3hp 3phase motor.
>http://www.doringer.com/d350.htm
>
>The stamped steel base of the Multicutter is no match for the 500lb
>piece of iron that is the base of the cold saw. The vise alone weighs
>more than the whole Dewalt. The biggest problem with little stamped
>steel vises with 1/2" thread screws is the cutting motion of the blade,
>when cutting a miter, is doing its best to pull the workpiece sideways-
>so you get funky, off angle cuts, inaccurate and crooked.
>The big vise on a cold saw holds the material rigidly in place. The
>Cast iron swivel base, which is engraved with degree marks, is quick
>and easy to get exactly the angle you want, and then it stays there.
>
>Constant coolant flow makes for no Heat Affected Zone, parts that can
>be handled right away, clean cuts, minimum burr.
>
>Cold saw blades last years- I have 2 for my saw, so one is always
>sharp, then I send the other, UPS, off to be resharpened, for 30 bucks
>or so. In heavy duty shop use, 3 guys full time, a blade can last 6
>months to a year between sharpenings, on mild steel.
>Yes, the blades are expensive, $165 for my size, (350 mmm) but I seldom
>have to buy one. A gallon of coolant lasts years- you mix it something
>like 20 to 1 with water.
>
>I cut 2" solid square, or 1/4" round, with equal precision. The blade
>speed is so slow, at about 44 rpm, that the danger is minimal- sure,
>you can hurt yourself with any tool, but the difference in danger level
>between a 2000 rpm carbide blade, and a 44 rpm steel blade- well, the
>cold saw will hardly cut thru your glove if you brush up against the
>spinning blade- try that with a Dewalt, and you will be counting to ten
>using your feet.
>
>As you can tell, I am sold on cold saws. I bought mine used for a
>grand, almost 15 years ago. No problems with it in all that time,
>except when an overenthusiastic employee actually snapped the 3/4"
>diameter, 2 foot long saw handle off at the threads, by pulling down
>too hard while cutting steel. No damage to the blade, or the saw, but
>the handle broke- this is a testament to the way these things are
>built.
>Mine is a Haberle, made in Germany, but I understand most of the
>current brands are similar highquality German, Dutch, or Italian saws.
>Doringers are made in the US.
>
>Yes, they cost a lot more.
>But they are built like tanks, and will outlive you. So if you are
>planning on making things from metal for any period of time, they will
>pay for themselves in the end.
I use bandsaws for all my saw cuts. These saws also cut cold. And a
wide variety of materials can be cut just by changing blade speeds and
the type of blade. But I'm interested in cold saws. I've seen them
work on TV and they seem to cut pretty fast. How long does it take
your saw to cut through 2 inch mild steel round?
Thanks,
Eric
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Posted by Proctologically Violated©® on April 27, 2006, 9:27 pm
Please log in for more thread options I'm not sure why they're called "cold"--some are set up for coolant.
But I've used a couple of types--very high rpm hydraulic *screamers*, w/
spray coolant, and very low rpm (Thomas MonDial ) 2-spd jobbies. I think
both are called cold saws, not sure.
The low rpm Thomas can go thru 2" round in a few minutes--def'ly slower than
the automatic Kalamazoo horz'l band saw (1" blade), but much cleaner, more
accurate cuts, to within a few thou when properly stopped. Almost do not
need to face the cut!
The vises tighten "on center"--very high quality, very heavy, as rniemi
said.
I loved the one in the shop, but don't know if everyone could really benefit
from one, even tho they are beautiful tools. The manual ones are simpler to
use than a hydraulic band saw, quiet, etc.
But I don't know if you will see too many in cnc shops.
If I had to choose between a low rpm cold saw and a horz'l band saw, I'd
proly pick the band saw, but would always miss the cold saw.
As I do now!!
--
Mr. P.V.'d
formerly Droll Troll
> On 27 Apr 2006 16:51:33 -0700, rniemi@fidalgo.net wrote:
>
>>
>>> Can someone who has experience with coldsaws please explain how these
>>> differ in performance and blade lifespan (cost effectiveness) compared
>>> to true coldsaws?
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>>
>>> Dave
>>
>>Night and day.
>>The first thing to look at with any machine tool is the weight- this
>>tells you a lot, and is particularly informative in this case.
>>First, consider a standard $150 abrasive chop saw- 40 pounds or so.
>>With a 15 amp motor, which "develops" 3 hp? so they say, actually
>>probably more like 1/2hp.
>>
>>Then, one of these new hybrid saws, with the carbide blade- the dewalt
>>is 47lbs, with again a 15 amp motor rated at "4 hp".
>>
>>Sorry, Homey just doesnt believe the horsepower ratings.
>>
>>Now look at a real coldsaw, like this Doringer- 780 lbs, and an honest
>>3hp 3phase motor.
>>http://www.doringer.com/d350.htm
>>
>>The stamped steel base of the Multicutter is no match for the 500lb
>>piece of iron that is the base of the cold saw. The vise alone weighs
>>more than the whole Dewalt. The biggest problem with little stamped
>>steel vises with 1/2" thread screws is the cutting motion of the blade,
>>when cutting a miter, is doing its best to pull the workpiece sideways-
>>so you get funky, off angle cuts, inaccurate and crooked.
>>The big vise on a cold saw holds the material rigidly in place. The
>>Cast iron swivel base, which is engraved with degree marks, is quick
>>and easy to get exactly the angle you want, and then it stays there.
>>
>>Constant coolant flow makes for no Heat Affected Zone, parts that can
>>be handled right away, clean cuts, minimum burr.
>>
>>Cold saw blades last years- I have 2 for my saw, so one is always
>>sharp, then I send the other, UPS, off to be resharpened, for 30 bucks
>>or so. In heavy duty shop use, 3 guys full time, a blade can last 6
>>months to a year between sharpenings, on mild steel.
>>Yes, the blades are expensive, $165 for my size, (350 mmm) but I seldom
>>have to buy one. A gallon of coolant lasts years- you mix it something
>>like 20 to 1 with water.
>>
>>I cut 2" solid square, or 1/4" round, with equal precision. The blade
>>speed is so slow, at about 44 rpm, that the danger is minimal- sure,
>>you can hurt yourself with any tool, but the difference in danger level
>>between a 2000 rpm carbide blade, and a 44 rpm steel blade- well, the
>>cold saw will hardly cut thru your glove if you brush up against the
>>spinning blade- try that with a Dewalt, and you will be counting to ten
>>using your feet.
>>
>>As you can tell, I am sold on cold saws. I bought mine used for a
>>grand, almost 15 years ago. No problems with it in all that time,
>>except when an overenthusiastic employee actually snapped the 3/4"
>>diameter, 2 foot long saw handle off at the threads, by pulling down
>>too hard while cutting steel. No damage to the blade, or the saw, but
>>the handle broke- this is a testament to the way these things are
>>built.
>>Mine is a Haberle, made in Germany, but I understand most of the
>>current brands are similar highquality German, Dutch, or Italian saws.
>>Doringers are made in the US.
>>
>>Yes, they cost a lot more.
>>But they are built like tanks, and will outlive you. So if you are
>>planning on making things from metal for any period of time, they will
>>pay for themselves in the end.
> I use bandsaws for all my saw cuts. These saws also cut cold. And a
> wide variety of materials can be cut just by changing blade speeds and
> the type of blade. But I'm interested in cold saws. I've seen them
> work on TV and they seem to cut pretty fast. How long does it take
> your saw to cut through 2 inch mild steel round?
> Thanks,
> Eric
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Posted by Ignoramus21303 on April 27, 2006, 10:00 pm
Please log in for more thread options > On 27 Apr 2006 16:51:33 -0700, rniemi@fidalgo.net wrote:
>
>>
>>> Can someone who has experience with coldsaws please explain how these
>>> differ in performance and blade lifespan (cost effectiveness) compared
>>> to true coldsaws?
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>>
>>> Dave
>>
>>Night and day.
>>The first thing to look at with any machine tool is the weight- this
>>tells you a lot, and is particularly informative in this case.
>>First, consider a standard $150 abrasive chop saw- 40 pounds or so.
>>With a 15 amp motor, which "develops" 3 hp? so they say, actually
>>probably more like 1/2hp.
>>
>>Then, one of these new hybrid saws, with the carbide blade- the dewalt
>>is 47lbs, with again a 15 amp motor rated at "4 hp".
>>
>>Sorry, Homey just doesnt believe the horsepower ratings.
>>
>>Now look at a real coldsaw, like this Doringer- 780 lbs, and an honest
>>3hp 3phase motor.
>>http://www.doringer.com/d350.htm
>>
>>The stamped steel base of the Multicutter is no match for the 500lb
>>piece of iron that is the base of the cold saw. The vise alone weighs
>>more than the whole Dewalt. The biggest problem with little stamped
>>steel vises with 1/2" thread screws is the cutting motion of the blade,
>>when cutting a miter, is doing its best to pull the workpiece sideways-
>>so you get funky, off angle cuts, inaccurate and crooked.
>>The big vise on a cold saw holds the material rigidly in place. The
>>Cast iron swivel base, which is engraved with degree marks, is quick
>>and easy to get exactly the angle you want, and then it stays there.
>>
>>Constant coolant flow makes for no Heat Affected Zone, parts that can
>>be handled right away, clean cuts, minimum burr.
>>
>>Cold saw blades last years- I have 2 for my saw, so one is always
>>sharp, then I send the other, UPS, off to be resharpened, for 30 bucks
>>or so. In heavy duty shop use, 3 guys full time, a blade can last 6
>>months to a year between sharpenings, on mild steel.
>>Yes, the blades are expensive, $165 for my size, (350 mmm) but I seldom
>>have to buy one. A gallon of coolant lasts years- you mix it something
>>like 20 to 1 with water.
>>
>>I cut 2" solid square, or 1/4" round, with equal precision. The blade
>>speed is so slow, at about 44 rpm, that the danger is minimal- sure,
>>you can hurt yourself with any tool, but the difference in danger level
>>between a 2000 rpm carbide blade, and a 44 rpm steel blade- well, the
>>cold saw will hardly cut thru your glove if you brush up against the
>>spinning blade- try that with a Dewalt, and you will be counting to ten
>>using your feet.
>>
>>As you can tell, I am sold on cold saws. I bought mine used for a
>>grand, almost 15 years ago. No problems with it in all that time,
>>except when an overenthusiastic employee actually snapped the 3/4"
>>diameter, 2 foot long saw handle off at the threads, by pulling down
>>too hard while cutting steel. No damage to the blade, or the saw, but
>>the handle broke- this is a testament to the way these things are
>>built.
>>Mine is a Haberle, made in Germany, but I understand most of the
>>current brands are similar highquality German, Dutch, or Italian saws.
>>Doringers are made in the US.
>>
>>Yes, they cost a lot more.
>>But they are built like tanks, and will outlive you. So if you are
>>planning on making things from metal for any period of time, they will
>>pay for themselves in the end.
> I use bandsaws for all my saw cuts. These saws also cut cold. And a
> wide variety of materials can be cut just by changing blade speeds and
> the type of blade. But I'm interested in cold saws. I've seen them
> work on TV and they seem to cut pretty fast. How long does it take
> your saw to cut through 2 inch mild steel round?
> Thanks,
> Eric
I saw how cold saws work, they cut through steel like knife through
butter. Very quickly and quietly.
i
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> differ in performance and blade lifespan (cost effectiveness) compared
> to true coldsaws?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Dave