Firescale?

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Subject Author Date
Firescale? Michael Koblic 05-12-2008
Posted by Michael Koblic on May 12, 2008, 7:01 pm
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I had to silver-solder two small components together today. To get a proper
solder flow I had to apply heat directly to the part of one component that
will later be visible. It ended up covered with black gunk. Is this what
they call firescale?

I tried removing it with steel wool with only partial success. In the end a
judicial application of 400 grit sandpaper did the trick without
obliterating the pattern underneath.

If this is firescale I understand Sparex (sodium bisulphate) is the thing to
clean it. Am I correct?

--
Michael Koblic,
Campbell River, BC



Posted by on May 12, 2008, 6:33 pm
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On Mon, 12 May 2008 16:01:00 -0700, "Michael Koblic"

>I had to silver-solder two small components together today. To get a proper
>solder flow I had to apply heat directly to the part of one component that
>will later be visible. It ended up covered with black gunk. Is this what
>they call firescale?
>
>I tried removing it with steel wool with only partial success. In the end a
>judicial application of 400 grit sandpaper did the trick without
>obliterating the pattern underneath.
>
>If this is firescale I understand Sparex (sodium bisulphate) is the thing to
>clean it. Am I correct?
>
>--
>Michael Koblic,
>Campbell River, BC
>
>
Sparex won't remove firescale. At least not any firescale I've had to
remove. A 50 % nitric acid/50% water solution will work though. Best
bet is to make sure you cover with flux the metal that is getting hot
enough to form firescale. Keep in mind that flux absorbs oxygen which
is why it helps prevent firescale and keeps the area to be soldered
free from oxidation. But flux only absorbs so much oxygen. It's best
to use enough heat to get the job done fast rather than use a small
flame.
ERS

Posted by Brian Lawson on May 12, 2008, 8:02 pm
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On Mon, 12 May 2008 16:01:00 -0700, "Michael Koblic"

>I had to silver-solder two small components together today. To get a proper
>solder flow I had to apply heat directly to the part of one component that
>will later be visible. It ended up covered with black gunk. Is this what
>they call firescale?
>
>I tried removing it with steel wool with only partial success. In the end a
>judicial application of 400 grit sandpaper did the trick without
>obliterating the pattern underneath.
>
>If this is firescale I understand Sparex (sodium bisulphate) is the thing to
>clean it. Am I correct?


Hey Michael,

Short answer is yes. But it depends a lot on exactly what it is you
are doing, but the following is a guide line and used when building
model locomotive boilers of copper, after all the joints are done.

"To help clean the piece after soldering, it is quenched in "pickle",
a moderately strong sulfuric acid bath, or a pretty concentrated
solution of sodium bisulfate. Hydrochloric (muriatic) acid is better
for copper and brass. (Platter's call it "bright dip".) Use two
containers, one for the pickle, the other for rinse water. Pickle will
eat holes in cotton and other vegetable fibers, and it can splash when
a hot piece is dropped into it. Wear an apron. Don't pick up a piece
in the pickle with iron tongs. Some dissolved copper will plate onto
the silver because of the galvanic action. Copper tongs are standard;
stainless steel might work. A hook of copper wire might suffice, and
don't hesitate to use your bare hands/ fingers if you have no broken
skin. "

I don't advise the latter, just in case!! Acid burns can easily go
right to the bone, as with lye also.

Take care. Brian Lawson,
Bothwell, Ontario.

ps...whatcha makin ??

Posted by Michael Koblic on May 12, 2008, 8:07 pm
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> On Mon, 12 May 2008 16:01:00 -0700, "Michael Koblic"

> ps...whatcha makin ??

This one is a miniature sundial



Posted by Joe on May 13, 2008, 9:29 am
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On Mon, 12 May 2008 20:02:12 -0400, Brian Lawson


>Hey Michael,
>
>Short answer is yes. But it depends a lot on exactly what it is you
>are doing, but the following is a guide line and used when building
>model locomotive boilers of copper, after all the joints are done.
>
>"To help clean the piece after soldering, it is quenched in "pickle",
>a moderately strong sulfuric acid bath, or a pretty concentrated
>solution of sodium bisulfate. Hydrochloric (muriatic) acid is better
>for copper and brass. (Platter's call it "bright dip".)

Question: Why do they recommend sulfuric or sodium bisulfate first, if
muriatic is the preferred pickle? I'm not trying to be difficult,
mostly just curious as to what other materials model loco builders
might use for boilers.

Also, does the pickle work fine at room temperature?

Joe



>Use two
>containers, one for the pickle, the other for rinse water. Pickle will
>eat holes in cotton and other vegetable fibers, and it can splash when
>a hot piece is dropped into it. Wear an apron. Don't pick up a piece
>in the pickle with iron tongs. Some dissolved copper will plate onto
>the silver because of the galvanic action. Copper tongs are standard;
>stainless steel might work. A hook of copper wire might suffice, and
>don't hesitate to use your bare hands/ fingers if you have no broken
>skin. "
>
>I don't advise the latter, just in case!! Acid burns can easily go
>right to the bone, as with lye also.
>
>Take care. Brian Lawson,
>Bothwell, Ontario.
>
>ps...whatcha makin ??


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