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Posted by ED on April 27, 2008, 12:13 am
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wrote:
>ED wrote:
>
>> wrote:
>>
>>
>>>ED wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>Karl Townsend wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>My 1970 Ford 2000 3 cylinder is in two pieces right now. I have the
flywheel
>>>>>>all mounted for machining. Now, I find out the spec. I need is not in the
>>>>>>repair manual.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>There are two surfaces on this flywheel. The clutch itself mounts to the
>>>>>>higher outer ring. The pressure plate surface is around 1.7 to 1.75 lower.
I
>>>>>>need the exact spec. on this height difference. I can see this height
>>>>>>effects the clutch performance by changing when the PTO and forward disks
>>>>>>engage relative to each other.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Any suggestions on where to get the spec?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Karl
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>No need of the specs, what you remove off the flywheel face, you remove
>>>>>also of the mounting face. The original dimension is easily ascertained
>>>>>if needed, as the clutch disc never wipes the full diameter of the flywheel
>>>>>surface.
>>>>>Service manuals? What is the US fixation on these? Never seen one yet that
>>>>>gave these details. All they say is replace the flywheel when it requires
>>>>>resurfacing. It is a F.O.R.D after all.
>>>>>
>>>>>Tom
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Ag applications are unique. The step dimension is critical,
>>>>I can't quote ford but a ihc 3 cyl diesel is 1.444" . A call to the
>>>>local ford tractor dealer service manager should get what you
>>>>seek. You can replace the disc/plate a couple of times and
>>>>get away with it. But if you are out of spec you can't get the
>>>>clutch to disengage, and will be splitting it again.... ED
>>>>
>>>
>>>1.444" No tolerance? On an IHC? Ya kidding right?
>>
>>
>>
>> Nope thats the number in my manual, damn germans are
>> so anal they even grind and polish the throws on the crank..
>> Why do they even bother....
>>
>Something else you don't know, ED?
Why are there no soft plugs on german made ihc diesels?
Why is the crankshaft CL offset to the CL of the cyl bore?
> >
>>>BTW, Ed in the real world there are those that can determine the original
>>>dimension from an existing worn flywheel and can correct the wear
deficiencies,
>>>without deviating from the oem specs. They're called experienced.
>>
>>
>> Sometimes farmer John will do a clutch job on the farm, take the
>> flywheel down to NAPA and get it ground flat. New rebuilt plate and
>> disc.. and do the samething again when it starts slipping in a few
>> years and again----. Yea you can determine the oem specs on a
>> virgin flywheel but not on one that *experienced*.
>> ED
>>
>>>Tom
>>
>You may not be able to, ED, but don't presume what others can
>and can't do.
I would never assume to presume anything ED
>Tom
|
|
Posted by Tom on April 27, 2008, 12:34 am
Please log in for more thread options
ED wrote:
> wrote:
>
>
>>ED wrote:
>>
>>
>>>wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>ED wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>Karl Townsend wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>My 1970 Ford 2000 3 cylinder is in two pieces right now. I have the
flywheel
>>>>>>>all mounted for machining. Now, I find out the spec. I need is not in the
>>>>>>>repair manual.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>There are two surfaces on this flywheel. The clutch itself mounts to the
>>>>>>>higher outer ring. The pressure plate surface is around 1.7 to 1.75
lower. I
>>>>>>>need the exact spec. on this height difference. I can see this height
>>>>>>>effects the clutch performance by changing when the PTO and forward disks
>>>>>>>engage relative to each other.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Any suggestions on where to get the spec?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Karl
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>No need of the specs, what you remove off the flywheel face, you remove
>>>>>>also of the mounting face. The original dimension is easily ascertained
>>>>>>if needed, as the clutch disc never wipes the full diameter of the flywheel
>>>>>>surface.
>>>>>>Service manuals? What is the US fixation on these? Never seen one yet that
>>>>>>gave these details. All they say is replace the flywheel when it requires
>>>>>>resurfacing. It is a F.O.R.D after all.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Tom
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Ag applications are unique. The step dimension is critical,
>>>>>I can't quote ford but a ihc 3 cyl diesel is 1.444" . A call to the
>>>>>local ford tractor dealer service manager should get what you
>>>>>seek. You can replace the disc/plate a couple of times and
>>>>>get away with it. But if you are out of spec you can't get the
>>>>>clutch to disengage, and will be splitting it again.... ED
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>1.444" No tolerance? On an IHC? Ya kidding right?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Nope thats the number in my manual, damn germans are
>>>so anal they even grind and polish the throws on the crank..
>>>Why do they even bother....
>>>
>>
>>Something else you don't know, ED?
>
>
> Why are there no soft plugs on german made ihc diesels?
>
Because German foundry men are skilled at designing cores?
Or has the engine wet liners?
>
> Why is the crankshaft CL offset to the CL of the cyl bore?
>
To minimise piston friction after TDC. Thus increasing power.
>
>
>>>>BTW, Ed in the real world there are those that can determine the original
>>>>dimension from an existing worn flywheel and can correct the wear
deficiencies,
>>>>without deviating from the oem specs. They're called experienced.
>>>
>>>
>>>Sometimes farmer John will do a clutch job on the farm, take the
>>>flywheel down to NAPA and get it ground flat. New rebuilt plate and
>>>disc.. and do the samething again when it starts slipping in a few
>>>years and again----. Yea you can determine the oem specs on a
>>>virgin flywheel but not on one that *experienced*.
>>> ED
>>>
>>>
>>>>Tom
>>>
>>You may not be able to, ED, but don't presume what others can
>>and can't do.
>
>
> I would never assume to presume anything ED
>
>
>
>>Tom
>
>
|
|
Posted by ED on April 27, 2008, 12:57 am
Please log in for more thread options wrote:
>ED wrote:
>> wrote:
>>
>>
>>>ED wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>ED wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Karl Townsend wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>My 1970 Ford 2000 3 cylinder is in two pieces right now. I have the
flywheel
>>>>>>>>all mounted for machining. Now, I find out the spec. I need is not in
the
>>>>>>>>repair manual.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>There are two surfaces on this flywheel. The clutch itself mounts to the
>>>>>>>>higher outer ring. The pressure plate surface is around 1.7 to 1.75
lower. I
>>>>>>>>need the exact spec. on this height difference. I can see this height
>>>>>>>>effects the clutch performance by changing when the PTO and forward
disks
>>>>>>>>engage relative to each other.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Any suggestions on where to get the spec?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Karl
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>No need of the specs, what you remove off the flywheel face, you remove
>>>>>>>also of the mounting face. The original dimension is easily ascertained
>>>>>>>if needed, as the clutch disc never wipes the full diameter of the
flywheel
>>>>>>>surface.
>>>>>>>Service manuals? What is the US fixation on these? Never seen one yet that
>>>>>>>gave these details. All they say is replace the flywheel when it requires
>>>>>>>resurfacing. It is a F.O.R.D after all.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Tom
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Ag applications are unique. The step dimension is critical,
>>>>>>I can't quote ford but a ihc 3 cyl diesel is 1.444" . A call to the
>>>>>>local ford tractor dealer service manager should get what you
>>>>>>seek. You can replace the disc/plate a couple of times and
>>>>>>get away with it. But if you are out of spec you can't get the
>>>>>>clutch to disengage, and will be splitting it again.... ED
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>1.444" No tolerance? On an IHC? Ya kidding right?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Nope thats the number in my manual, damn germans are
>>>>so anal they even grind and polish the throws on the crank..
>>>>Why do they even bother....
>>>>
>>>
>>>Something else you don't know, ED?
>>
>>
>> Why are there no soft plugs on german made ihc diesels?
> >
>Because German foundry men are skilled at designing cores?
>Or has the engine wet liners?
Germans are very skilled and yes they are wet lined...
local service techs call them grenade engines...with a smile lots of
used parts in the salvage yards except blocks...why bother machining
the cranks if the blocks are prone to fail prematurely. Designed
obsolence.. The web between the liners are also too thin and are
prone to leaking...
>>
>> Why is the crankshaft CL offset to the CL of the cyl bore?
>>
>To minimise piston friction after TDC. Thus increasing power.
something to do with the connecting rod not
being forced straight down on the crank journels upon firing ie more
torque...but the side load on the piston/cyl has increased wear
also dampens vibration on certain cyl configurations. ie 3-4 cyl see
Toyota's designs
>>
>>
>>>>>BTW, Ed in the real world there are those that can determine the original
>>>>>dimension from an existing worn flywheel and can correct the wear
deficiencies,
>>>>>without deviating from the oem specs. They're called experienced.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Sometimes farmer John will do a clutch job on the farm, take the
>>>>flywheel down to NAPA and get it ground flat. New rebuilt plate and
>>>>disc.. and do the samething again when it starts slipping in a few
>>>>years and again----. Yea you can determine the oem specs on a
>>>>virgin flywheel but not on one that *experienced*.
>>>> ED
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>Tom
>>>>
>>>You may not be able to, ED, but don't presume what others can
>>>and can't do.
>>
>>
>> I would never assume to presume anything ED
>>
>>
>>
>>>Tom
>>
>>
|
|
Posted by Tom on April 27, 2008, 1:28 am
Please log in for more thread options ED wrote:
> wrote:
>
>
.......................
>>>>>>>>No need of the specs, what you remove off the flywheel face, you remove
>>>>>>>>also of the mounting face. The original dimension is easily ascertained
>>>>>>>>if needed, as the clutch disc never wipes the full diameter of the
flywheel
>>>>>>>>surface.
>>>>>>>>Service manuals? What is the US fixation on these? Never seen one yet
that
>>>>>>>>gave these details. All they say is replace the flywheel when it requires
>>>>>>>>resurfacing. It is a F.O.R.D after all.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Tom
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Ag applications are unique. The step dimension is critical,
>>>>>>>I can't quote ford but a ihc 3 cyl diesel is 1.444" . A call to the
>>>>>>>local ford tractor dealer service manager should get what you
>>>>>>>seek. You can replace the disc/plate a couple of times and
>>>>>>>get away with it. But if you are out of spec you can't get the
>>>>>>>clutch to disengage, and will be splitting it again.... ED
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>1.444" No tolerance? On an IHC? Ya kidding right?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>Nope thats the number in my manual, damn germans are
>>>>>so anal they even grind and polish the throws on the crank..
>>>>>Why do they even bother....
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Something else you don't know, ED?
>>>
>>>
>>>Why are there no soft plugs on german made ihc diesels?
>>>
>>
>>Because German foundry men are skilled at designing cores?
>>Or has the engine wet liners?
>
>
>
> Germans are very skilled and yes they are wet lined...
> local service techs call them grenade engines...with a smile lots of
> used parts in the salvage yards except blocks...why bother machining
> the cranks if the blocks are prone to fail prematurely. Designed
> obsolence.. The web between the liners are also too thin and are
> prone to leaking...
>
An IHC engine deign. You get what you pay for. Ask someone who cares.
>
>>> Why is the crankshaft CL offset to the CL of the cyl bore?
>>>
>>
>>To minimise piston friction after TDC. Thus increasing power.
>
>
> something to do with the connecting rod not
> being forced straight down on the crank journels upon firing ie more
> torque...but the side load on the piston/cyl has increased wear
> also dampens vibration on certain cyl configurations. ie 3-4 cyl see
> Toyota's designs
>
>
Something? LOL
Don't try and teach your grandmother to suck eggs, ED, offset cylinder
engines have been around for over 100 years, I don't give a monkey's
that Toyota have just discovered them.
>>
>>>>>>BTW, Ed in the real world there are those that can determine the original
>>>>>>dimension from an existing worn flywheel and can correct the wear
deficiencies,
>>>>>>without deviating from the oem specs. They're called experienced.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>Sometimes farmer John will do a clutch job on the farm, take the
>>>>>flywheel down to NAPA and get it ground flat. New rebuilt plate and
>>>>>disc.. and do the samething again when it starts slipping in a few
>>>>>years and again----. Yea you can determine the oem specs on a
>>>>>virgin flywheel but not on one that *experienced*.
>>>>> ED
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>Tom
>>>>>
>>>>You may not be able to, ED, but don't presume what others can
>>>>and can't do.
>>>
>>>
>>> I would never assume to presume anything ED
>>>
>>>>Tom
>>>
|
|
Posted by Karl Townsend on April 27, 2008, 7:46 am
Please log in for more thread options > Ag applications are unique. The step dimension is critical,
> I can't quote ford but a ihc 3 cyl diesel is 1.444" . A call to the
> local ford tractor dealer service manager should get what you
> seek. You can replace the disc/plate a couple of times and
> get away with it. But if you are out of spec you can't get the
> clutch to disengage, and will be splitting it again.... ED
This is right where I'm at. I think, but don't know, that the last guy only
refaced the wear surface, making the distance go larger. The clutch wasn't
working right and I'm not seeing enough wear to explain things.
There used to be four Ford dealers around here. All but one is out of
business. That one is useless for service help. Their attitude is "bring it
in" if you need help. I really miss Long Lake Ford , they had a parts guy
that had fixed every tractor a hundred times. He could quote every spec. and
then tell what to watch for on any repair.
Karl
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