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Posted by Pete C. on March 20, 2008, 8:13 pm
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SteveB wrote:
>
> I guess my question is mostly about oxygen bottles. IIRC, propane,
> acetylene and CO2 are all liquid inside the bottle and have to be mounted
> vertically. OR, could they be mounted at a 45, particularly an acetylene?
>
> My trailer has an O2 and an acetylene mounted vertically. They both were
> mounted with plate that is about 3/4" thick, and came from some salvaged
> use. They look like crap, and were gorilla welded on. But I don't like
> their high profile. The O2 is a full sized tall tank, and the acetylene is
> stubby, about waist high, but not the fat round one. If I stay with
> propane, I'll use the shorter tanks anyway, or go with a stubby fat one that
> won't stand that high anyway. But the O2 just sticks up there way high, and
> I don't like the leverage it has that way in sudden maneuver driving
> situations.
>
> I believe that I could mount the O2 horizontally, and it wouldn't matter.
> Is that correct? I don't use a CO2 on the rig, but down the line, who
> knows. I do have an acetylene bottle there, but may go to propane. Would
> the acetylene be okay mounted at a 45?
>
> Steve
Operationally the O2 could be upside down and it wouldn't matter since
it's just gas in there. What you need to check is the DOT regs since
it's on a trailer and I believe that the DOT regs specify that gas
cylinders must be secured upright.
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Posted by Pete C. on March 21, 2008, 7:16 am
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"Pete C." wrote:
>
> SteveB wrote:
> >
> > I guess my question is mostly about oxygen bottles. IIRC, propane,
> > acetylene and CO2 are all liquid inside the bottle and have to be mounted
> > vertically. OR, could they be mounted at a 45, particularly an acetylene?
> >
> > My trailer has an O2 and an acetylene mounted vertically. They both were
> > mounted with plate that is about 3/4" thick, and came from some salvaged
> > use. They look like crap, and were gorilla welded on. But I don't like
> > their high profile. The O2 is a full sized tall tank, and the acetylene is
> > stubby, about waist high, but not the fat round one. If I stay with
> > propane, I'll use the shorter tanks anyway, or go with a stubby fat one that
> > won't stand that high anyway. But the O2 just sticks up there way high, and
> > I don't like the leverage it has that way in sudden maneuver driving
> > situations.
> >
> > I believe that I could mount the O2 horizontally, and it wouldn't matter.
> > Is that correct? I don't use a CO2 on the rig, but down the line, who
> > knows. I do have an acetylene bottle there, but may go to propane. Would
> > the acetylene be okay mounted at a 45?
> >
> > Steve
>
> Operationally the O2 could be upside down and it wouldn't matter since
> it's just gas in there. What you need to check is the DOT regs since
> it's on a trailer and I believe that the DOT regs specify that gas
> cylinders must be secured upright.
This excerpt from 49 CFR seems to indicate that there are no orientation
requirements for gas cylinders secured in a rack. They specify vertical
or horizontal for cylinders apparently secured more generally, but don't
specify orientation for cylinders secured in specific racks. The
exception notes pressure relief devices on flammable gas cylinders which
would apply for propane, and of course functionally acetylene cylinders
need to be reasonably vertical to prevent feeding the acetone solvent
into the regulator.
TITLE 49--TRANSPORTATION
CHAPTER I--PIPELINE AND HAZARDOUS MATERIALS SAFETY ADMINISTRATION,
DEPARTMENT OF TRANSPORTATION
PART 177_CARRIAGE BY PUBLIC HIGHWAY
Subpart A_General Information and Regulations
...
Sec. 177.840 Class 2 (gases) materials.
(See also Sec. 177.834 (a) to (j).)
(a) Floors or platforms essentially flat. Cylinders containing Class
2 (gases) materials shall not be loaded onto any part of the floor or
platform of any motor vehicle which is not essentially flat; cylinders
containing Class 2 (gases) materials may be loaded onto any motor
vehicle not having a floor or platform only if such motor vehicle be
equipped with suitable racks having adequate means for securing such
cylinders in place therein. Nothing contained in this section shall be
so construed as to prohibit the loading of such cylinders on any motor
vehicle having a floor or platform and racks as hereinbefore described.
[[Page 813]]
(1) Cylinders. Cylinders containing Class 2 gases must be securely
restrained in an upright or horizontal position, loaded in racks, or
packed in boxes or crates to prevent the cylinders from being shifted,
overturned or ejected from the motor vehicle under normal transportation
conditions. However, after December 31, 2003, a pressure relief device,
when installed, must be in communication with the vapor space of a
cylinder containing a Division 2.1 (flammable gas) material.
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Posted by SteveB on March 21, 2008, 9:46 am
Please log in for more thread options
>
> "Pete C." wrote:
>>
>> SteveB wrote:
>> >
>> > I guess my question is mostly about oxygen bottles. IIRC, propane,
>> > acetylene and CO2 are all liquid inside the bottle and have to be
>> > mounted
>> > vertically. OR, could they be mounted at a 45, particularly an
>> > acetylene?
>> >
>> > My trailer has an O2 and an acetylene mounted vertically. They both
>> > were
>> > mounted with plate that is about 3/4" thick, and came from some
>> > salvaged
>> > use. They look like crap, and were gorilla welded on. But I don't
>> > like
>> > their high profile. The O2 is a full sized tall tank, and the
>> > acetylene is
>> > stubby, about waist high, but not the fat round one. If I stay with
>> > propane, I'll use the shorter tanks anyway, or go with a stubby fat one
>> > that
>> > won't stand that high anyway. But the O2 just sticks up there way
>> > high, and
>> > I don't like the leverage it has that way in sudden maneuver driving
>> > situations.
>> >
>> > I believe that I could mount the O2 horizontally, and it wouldn't
>> > matter.
>> > Is that correct? I don't use a CO2 on the rig, but down the line, who
>> > knows. I do have an acetylene bottle there, but may go to propane.
>> > Would
>> > the acetylene be okay mounted at a 45?
>> >
>> > Steve
>>
>> Operationally the O2 could be upside down and it wouldn't matter since
>> it's just gas in there. What you need to check is the DOT regs since
>> it's on a trailer and I believe that the DOT regs specify that gas
>> cylinders must be secured upright.
>
> This excerpt from 49 CFR seems to indicate that there are no orientation
> requirements for gas cylinders secured in a rack. They specify vertical
> or horizontal for cylinders apparently secured more generally, but don't
> specify orientation for cylinders secured in specific racks. The
> exception notes pressure relief devices on flammable gas cylinders which
> would apply for propane, and of course functionally acetylene cylinders
> need to be reasonably vertical to prevent feeding the acetone solvent
> into the regulator.
>
>
>
>
> TITLE 49--TRANSPORTATION
>
> CHAPTER I--PIPELINE AND HAZARDOUS MATERIALS SAFETY ADMINISTRATION,
> DEPARTMENT OF TRANSPORTATION
>
> PART 177_CARRIAGE BY PUBLIC HIGHWAY
>
> Subpart A_General Information and Regulations
>
> ...
>
> Sec. 177.840 Class 2 (gases) materials.
>
> (See also Sec. 177.834 (a) to (j).)
> (a) Floors or platforms essentially flat. Cylinders containing Class
> 2 (gases) materials shall not be loaded onto any part of the floor or
> platform of any motor vehicle which is not essentially flat; cylinders
> containing Class 2 (gases) materials may be loaded onto any motor
> vehicle not having a floor or platform only if such motor vehicle be
> equipped with suitable racks having adequate means for securing such
> cylinders in place therein. Nothing contained in this section shall be
> so construed as to prohibit the loading of such cylinders on any motor
> vehicle having a floor or platform and racks as hereinbefore described.
>
> [[Page 813]]
>
> (1) Cylinders. Cylinders containing Class 2 gases must be securely
> restrained in an upright or horizontal position, loaded in racks, or
> packed in boxes or crates to prevent the cylinders from being shifted,
> overturned or ejected from the motor vehicle under normal transportation
> conditions. However, after December 31, 2003, a pressure relief device,
> when installed, must be in communication with the vapor space of a
> cylinder containing a Division 2.1 (flammable gas) material.
Thanks. The acetylene bottle is shorter, no matter the diameter. Where it
is, and as it is, is fine. The l - o - n - g 02 bottle could be put
horizontally under the work table to reduce the height, improves looks
dramatically, and take away the top heaviness of it. There is a substantial
bottom mount, but only a band and a 1/4" x 20 bolt holding the top to the
welder. I'm sure it would fail in a collision.
Steve
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Posted by Bruce L. Bergman on March 21, 2008, 11:35 am
Please log in for more thread options On Fri, 21 Mar 2008 05:46:07 -0800, "SteveB"
>Thanks. The acetylene bottle is shorter, no matter the diameter. Where it
>is, and as it is, is fine. The l - o - n - g 02 bottle could be put
>horizontally under the work table to reduce the height, improves looks
>dramatically, and take away the top heaviness of it. There is a substantial
>bottom mount, but only a band and a 1/4" x 20 bolt holding the top to the
>welder. I'm sure it would fail in a collision.
The GTE Splicer trucks and vans all carried a large (200CF range)
Nitrogen cylinder horizontally for air tools and cable pressurization,
you would chain the bottle to the pole if you needed to leave it in
the field. (And I suppose they still do since the work remains the
same, though the racks may have been upgraded.)
They had a not-so-special slide-out rack in the back of vans or in a
side compartment of the larger trucks (some carried two) with simple
hoops to restrain the bottle during transport, and a chain to keep it
from sliding out the open end of the rack. That and the steel valve
cap being on the cylinder during transport was considered to be
'secure storage'.
You might want to contact the auction house where they sell off the
surplus trucks, and arrange to be there on auction days - many buyers
of the used trucks would consider it a bonus to sell off the interior
fittings that will be useless to them, since they'll be using the
truck for Landscape Maintenance. Bring cash and a socket set.
Acetylene cylinders MUST be used in the vertical position (*), and
should be transported the same way so someone doesn't forget and send
a big slug of acetone through the regulator and piping.
* - The only exception is if you can find an antique B or MC
cylinder for auto or motorcycle headlights that is designed for
horizontal mounting and use on the running board of a Model T or eq.
The only place I've ever seen them is auto museums, welding supply
guys have no clue they even exist...
--<< Bruce >>--
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Posted by Shawn on March 21, 2008, 11:24 pm
Please log in for more thread options
>
> The GTE Splicer trucks and vans all carried a large (200CF range)
> Nitrogen cylinder horizontally for air tools and cable pressurization,
> you would chain the bottle to the pole if you needed to leave it in
> the field. (And I suppose they still do since the work remains the
> same, though the racks may have been upgraded.)
>
snip>
> --<< Bruce >>--
>
Bruce,
I often see bottles strapped to poles after some work has been done on a
splice (I assume). What is the nitrogen used for after they are complete?
Sometimes I have seen the bottles left for over a week.
Shawn
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> I guess my question is mostly about oxygen bottles. IIRC, propane,
> acetylene and CO2 are all liquid inside the bottle and have to be mounted
> vertically. OR, could they be mounted at a 45, particularly an acetylene?
>
> My trailer has an O2 and an acetylene mounted vertically. They both were
> mounted with plate that is about 3/4" thick, and came from some salvaged
> use. They look like crap, and were gorilla welded on. But I don't like
> their high profile. The O2 is a full sized tall tank, and the acetylene is
> stubby, about waist high, but not the fat round one. If I stay with
> propane, I'll use the shorter tanks anyway, or go with a stubby fat one that
> won't stand that high anyway. But the O2 just sticks up there way high, and
> I don't like the leverage it has that way in sudden maneuver driving
> situations.
>
> I believe that I could mount the O2 horizontally, and it wouldn't matter.
> Is that correct? I don't use a CO2 on the rig, but down the line, who
> knows. I do have an acetylene bottle there, but may go to propane. Would
> the acetylene be okay mounted at a 45?
>
> Steve