Homemade CNC 2 spindle lathe question

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Homemade CNC 2 spindle lathe question etpm 08-07-2008
Posted by on August 7, 2008, 9:47 pm
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To All,
The control on one of my CNC lathes has failed to the point that
repair is more expensive that replacement. Even though it's going to
be expensive a new control opens up all sorts of possibilities. One
feature that would be really nice would be synchronised dual spindles.
This would allow work to be done on both ends of a part before it
comes out of the machine. I'm looking at various makes of software and
am leaning toward MACH 3. I'm thinking of mounting the spindle in the
tailstock and driving it in the Z axis with a ballscrew. But the real
problem is getting the rotation exactly the same as the main spindle.
One way I can think of is to use an encoder on the main spindle to
provide a signal to generate step and direction pulses. These pulses
in turn would be used with a servo amp from Gecko. I have already
built a device that uses the signals from an encoder to generate step
and direction pulses which in turn are used with a stepper driver to
index a stepper motor. So maybe the Gecko servo amp could be given
signals from the main spindle encoder while the part is being swapped
from one spindle to the other and then the speed controlled by the CNC
control while the part is being machined. Anybody have a better way?
Thanks,
Eric R Snow

Posted by Karl Townsend on August 7, 2008, 10:54 pm
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> control while the part is being machined. Anybody have a better way?

This is a whole different price range: $5 - 10K+. A Galil card (galilmc.com)
with a camsoft host control could easily handle this and much more. Email me
off list if you're at all interested.

Karl



Posted by on August 8, 2008, 2:00 am
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On Thu, 7 Aug 2008 21:54:07 -0500, "Karl Townsend"

>
>> control while the part is being machined. Anybody have a better way?
>
>This is a whole different price range: $5 - 10K+. A Galil card (galilmc.com)
>with a camsoft host control could easily handle this and much more. Email me
>off list if you're at all interested.
>
>Karl
>
>
Thanks for the offer Karl. I'll think about it. I've looked at Galil
stuff in the past and ended up with an Ajax control which is just a
DIY Centroid control.
Cheers,
Eric

Posted by DoN. Nichols on August 8, 2008, 12:03 am
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> To All,
> The control on one of my CNC lathes has failed to the point that
> repair is more expensive that replacement. Even though it's going to
> be expensive a new control opens up all sorts of possibilities. One
> feature that would be really nice would be synchronised dual spindles.
> This would allow work to be done on both ends of a part before it
> comes out of the machine. I'm looking at various makes of software and
> am leaning toward MACH 3. I'm thinking of mounting the spindle in the
> tailstock and driving it in the Z axis with a ballscrew. But the real
> problem is getting the rotation exactly the same as the main spindle.
> One way I can think of is to use an encoder on the main spindle to
> provide a signal to generate step and direction pulses. These pulses
> in turn would be used with a servo amp from Gecko.

        The problem that I see is that the spindle will be moving at a
constant speed, while the tailstock spindle will be doing a series of
stops and starts which will result in wear on the jaws of the tailstock
chuck and on the workpiece harming its finish. During the time when
both chucks are gripping, you will be subjecting the workpiece to
torsion vibration too.

        Note that a servo motor *can* run at a very stable speed, when
controlled by a true servo amplifier and with tach generator feedback.
You could probably even do what you need with an extra tach generator on
the headstock spindle generating the command voltage to the true servo
amp.

        The Gecko servo driver, however, does not pay any attention to
the tach generator on the servo motor (if it is present at all), but
moves the motor in steps just like a stepper motor -- paying attention
only to the encoder.

        I would go with the tach generator on the headstock spindle, and
a matching tach generator and servo amplifier on the tailstock spindle
motor. Bring the chuck into position almost but not quite touching the
workpiece in the headstock spindle, and slowly tweak the gain for the
tach vs the command inputs on the servo amplifier until the two are
moving at precisely the same speed. (One trick would be to cylinders of
glass or quartz with bar patterns on them and a light inside. Then, no
matter how fast the spindles are moving, if they are at the same speed,
the light will be at a constant brightness. If they are out, there will
be a pulsation in the light intensity, and the slower the pulsation the
closer to the same speed you are.

> I have already
> built a device that uses the signals from an encoder to generate step
> and direction pulses which in turn are used with a stepper driver to
> index a stepper motor. So maybe the Gecko servo amp could be given
> signals from the main spindle encoder while the part is being swapped
> from one spindle to the other and then the speed controlled by the CNC
> control while the part is being machined. Anybody have a better way?

        I think that your start/stop motion of the Gecko driven spindle
will be a problem -- so go for true servo amps as described instead.

        Good Luck,
                DoN.

--
        (too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---

Posted by on August 8, 2008, 2:11 am
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wrote:

>> To All,
>> The control on one of my CNC lathes has failed to the point that
>> repair is more expensive that replacement. Even though it's going to
>> be expensive a new control opens up all sorts of possibilities. One
>> feature that would be really nice would be synchronised dual spindles.
>> This would allow work to be done on both ends of a part before it
>> comes out of the machine. I'm looking at various makes of software and
>> am leaning toward MACH 3. I'm thinking of mounting the spindle in the
>> tailstock and driving it in the Z axis with a ballscrew. But the real
>> problem is getting the rotation exactly the same as the main spindle.
>> One way I can think of is to use an encoder on the main spindle to
>> provide a signal to generate step and direction pulses. These pulses
>> in turn would be used with a servo amp from Gecko.
>
>        The problem that I see is that the spindle will be moving at a
>constant speed, while the tailstock spindle will be doing a series of
>stops and starts which will result in wear on the jaws of the tailstock
>chuck and on the workpiece harming its finish. During the time when
>both chucks are gripping, you will be subjecting the workpiece to
>torsion vibration too.
>
>        Note that a servo motor *can* run at a very stable speed, when
>controlled by a true servo amplifier and with tach generator feedback.
>You could probably even do what you need with an extra tach generator on
>the headstock spindle generating the command voltage to the true servo
>amp.
>
>        The Gecko servo driver, however, does not pay any attention to
>the tach generator on the servo motor (if it is present at all), but
>moves the motor in steps just like a stepper motor -- paying attention
>only to the encoder.
>
>        I would go with the tach generator on the headstock spindle, and
>a matching tach generator and servo amplifier on the tailstock spindle
>motor. Bring the chuck into position almost but not quite touching the
>workpiece in the headstock spindle, and slowly tweak the gain for the
>tach vs the command inputs on the servo amplifier until the two are
>moving at precisely the same speed. (One trick would be to cylinders of
>glass or quartz with bar patterns on them and a light inside. Then, no
>matter how fast the spindles are moving, if they are at the same speed,
>the light will be at a constant brightness. If they are out, there will
>be a pulsation in the light intensity, and the slower the pulsation the
>closer to the same speed you are.
>
>> I have already
>> built a device that uses the signals from an encoder to generate step
>> and direction pulses which in turn are used with a stepper driver to
>> index a stepper motor. So maybe the Gecko servo amp could be given
>> signals from the main spindle encoder while the part is being swapped
>> from one spindle to the other and then the speed controlled by the CNC
>> control while the part is being machined. Anybody have a better way?
>
>        I think that your start/stop motion of the Gecko driven spindle
>will be a problem -- so go for true servo amps as described instead.
>
>        Good Luck,
>                DoN.
>
>--
>        (too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
> --- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---
Greetings DoN,
Are you sure about the stepped motion of the Gecko drive? It is not
driving a stepper motor, but a servo. It keeps track of position by
converting the encoder pulses to a + or - voltage. And how is a Gecko
drive not a real servo amp? Your light calibration method is only a
one time thing isn't it? Anyway, if the spindles are turning fairly
slowly when the swap is done I'm thinking that would be easier for the
Gecko to keep track. I guess what I need to do is mount an encoder to
the lathe spindle, another to the servo I plan to use, and see how
close I can get. And how long it takes each time for the spindles to
synch.
Thanks,
Eric

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