Is this a head gasket (2000 Dakota)

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Is this a head gasket (2000 Dakota) stryped 03-16-2009
Posted by stryped on March 16, 2009, 10:14 am
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=A0Well, I looked at the 2000 Dosge Dakota I have at home that was my
brothers. 1st I tried to start it but it had sat so long the battery
was dead. Charged the battery for a minute. Got it to crank a few
times but not start. I went ahead and took the plugs out:

6 =3D 90psi                3 =3D 190 psi (120 checked later)
5 =3D 105 psi        2 =3D 90 psi
4 =3D 95 psi                1 =3D 95 psi

These are the compression readings and the order I checked them. 1
being the drivers side front, 3 the drivers side back, 4 being
passanger side front, 6 being passanger side back. After checking all
compression I re-checked # 3 because of it being so much higher than
the others. It was 120 at this time.

When I pulled out the plugs the best I could tell they were ok. Looked
worn. Except number 3. It looked wet but not drenched. Also, On this
plug, the porcelane on the bottom of the plug around the gap was
broken, also, the grounding part that curves over (The part you adjust
the gap) was brken in half and missing.

Cranking with no spark plugs, light vaporized mist or or something
came from most of the holes but #3 I could tell had more coming out.
It was like water or droplets as I cranked much heavier than the rest.

I took a piece of winshield washer hose and stuck it down a few of the
spark plug holes and sucked with my mouth. (Probably not smart). Never
really got much of anythign out with the exception of #3. There was
some gas in there but also a sweet taste. (Would this be antifreeze?)

Inside of radiator hose had brown granulated crud that I could pull
out with my finger. Almost looked like brown sugar but a more red
color.

If I did not mention, truck has 151,000 on it. Overheated on my
brother. White smoke rolling out when it warmed up. When he had it
towed to my house, I started it right up and drove it about 200 feet
to park it and had no trouble at all and did not notice any sounds or
anything unusual.

Can I assume this is a blown head gasget around # 3? What is the
liklihood this is a cracked head? Should both head gaskets be
replaced? Should I go ahead and have the heads machined or check with
a straightedge and then if ok don=92t worry about it?

I want this to run right but money is a factor. My salary has been cut
recently due to the hard economic times. (Still thankful I have a job
though).

Posted by Keith Marshall on March 16, 2009, 11:45 am
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Have you looked at the oil? You need to find out if water has gotten into
the oil. I suspect it has since it overheated and that can be really bad.

Pull the oil dipstick and hold a lighter or flame under it. If there's
coolant in it you'll know because it'll boil out. It also may look foamy
which usually means there's quite a bit of coolant in it.

We've had this happen to 2 vehicles and in both cases it was easy to fix and
get them running again but they both failed soon after because the bearings
were ruined from lack of lubrication with the oil diluted so much.

One of them was a 1997 Chevy Malibu and it was actually caused by a cracked
intake gasket which is (as I found out later) a known problem with these.
The car was like new with only 57k miles even though it was 11 years old at
the time.

The mechanic that worked on it was also not aware that this happened to a
lot of them. He complained to my wife that she never changed the oil and it
was really sludged up. I told him she's a fanatic about changing it and
questioned whether it might be antifreeze but he didn't think so.

After he replaced the gasket and got it running again it seemed to be fine
until she drove it more than 10 miles and then it died. Turns out the
camshaft locked up at one end and broke in half because the cam bearings
were ruined by the "sludged up" oil.

We don't use this mechanic any more. :-(

Best Regards,
Keith Marshall
tooladdict@progressivelogic.com

"I'm not grown up enough to be so old!"



Well, I looked at the 2000 Dosge Dakota I have at home that was my
brothers. 1st I tried to start it but it had sat so long the battery
was dead. Charged the battery for a minute. Got it to crank a few
times but not start. I went ahead and took the plugs out:

6 = 90psi 3 = 190 psi (120 checked later)
5 = 105 psi 2 = 90 psi
4 = 95 psi 1 = 95 psi

These are the compression readings and the order I checked them. 1
being the drivers side front, 3 the drivers side back, 4 being
passanger side front, 6 being passanger side back. After checking all
compression I re-checked # 3 because of it being so much higher than
the others. It was 120 at this time.

When I pulled out the plugs the best I could tell they were ok. Looked
worn. Except number 3. It looked wet but not drenched. Also, On this
plug, the porcelane on the bottom of the plug around the gap was
broken, also, the grounding part that curves over (The part you adjust
the gap) was brken in half and missing.

Cranking with no spark plugs, light vaporized mist or or something
came from most of the holes but #3 I could tell had more coming out.
It was like water or droplets as I cranked much heavier than the rest.

I took a piece of winshield washer hose and stuck it down a few of the
spark plug holes and sucked with my mouth. (Probably not smart). Never
really got much of anythign out with the exception of #3. There was
some gas in there but also a sweet taste. (Would this be antifreeze?)

Inside of radiator hose had brown granulated crud that I could pull
out with my finger. Almost looked like brown sugar but a more red
color.

If I did not mention, truck has 151,000 on it. Overheated on my
brother. White smoke rolling out when it warmed up. When he had it
towed to my house, I started it right up and drove it about 200 feet
to park it and had no trouble at all and did not notice any sounds or
anything unusual.

Can I assume this is a blown head gasget around # 3? What is the
liklihood this is a cracked head? Should both head gaskets be
replaced? Should I go ahead and have the heads machined or check with
a straightedge and then if ok don’t worry about it?

I want this to run right but money is a factor. My salary has been cut
recently due to the hard economic times. (Still thankful I have a job
though).



Posted by Tim Wescott on March 16, 2009, 12:53 pm
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On Mon, 16 Mar 2009 11:45:11 -0400, Keith Marshall wrote:

> Have you looked at the oil? You need to find out if water has gotten
> into the oil. I suspect it has since it overheated and that can be
> really bad.
>
> Pull the oil dipstick and hold a lighter or flame under it. If there's
> coolant in it you'll know because it'll boil out. It also may look
> foamy which usually means there's quite a bit of coolant in it.
>
> We've had this happen to 2 vehicles and in both cases it was easy to fix
> and get them running again but they both failed soon after because the
> bearings were ruined from lack of lubrication with the oil diluted so
> much.
>
> One of them was a 1997 Chevy Malibu and it was actually caused by a
> cracked intake gasket which is (as I found out later) a known problem
> with these. The car was like new with only 57k miles even though it was
> 11 years old at the time.
>
> The mechanic that worked on it was also not aware that this happened to
> a lot of them. He complained to my wife that she never changed the oil
> and it was really sludged up. I told him she's a fanatic about changing
> it and questioned whether it might be antifreeze but he didn't think so.
>
> After he replaced the gasket and got it running again it seemed to be
> fine until she drove it more than 10 miles and then it died. Turns out
> the camshaft locked up at one end and broke in half because the cam
> bearings were ruined by the "sludged up" oil.
>
> We don't use this mechanic any more. :-(
>
> Best Regards,
> Keith Marshall
> tooladdict@progressivelogic.com
>
> "I'm not grown up enough to be so old!"
>
>
>
> Well, I looked at the 2000 Dosge Dakota I have at home that was my
> brothers. 1st I tried to start it but it had sat so long the battery was
> dead. Charged the battery for a minute. Got it to crank a few times but
> not start. I went ahead and took the plugs out:
>
> 6 = 90psi 3 = 190 psi (120 checked later) 5 = 105 psi 2 = 90 psi
> 4 = 95 psi 1 = 95 psi
>
> These are the compression readings and the order I checked them. 1 being
> the drivers side front, 3 the drivers side back, 4 being passanger side
> front, 6 being passanger side back. After checking all compression I
> re-checked # 3 because of it being so much higher than the others. It
> was 120 at this time.
>
> When I pulled out the plugs the best I could tell they were ok. Looked
> worn. Except number 3. It looked wet but not drenched. Also, On this
> plug, the porcelane on the bottom of the plug around the gap was broken,
> also, the grounding part that curves over (The part you adjust the gap)
> was brken in half and missing.
>
> Cranking with no spark plugs, light vaporized mist or or something came
> from most of the holes but #3 I could tell had more coming out. It was
> like water or droplets as I cranked much heavier than the rest.
>
> I took a piece of winshield washer hose and stuck it down a few of the
> spark plug holes and sucked with my mouth. (Probably not smart). Never
> really got much of anythign out with the exception of #3. There was some
> gas in there but also a sweet taste. (Would this be antifreeze?)
>
> Inside of radiator hose had brown granulated crud that I could pull out
> with my finger. Almost looked like brown sugar but a more red color.
>
> If I did not mention, truck has 151,000 on it. Overheated on my brother.
> White smoke rolling out when it warmed up. When he had it towed to my
> house, I started it right up and drove it about 200 feet to park it and
> had no trouble at all and did not notice any sounds or anything unusual.
>
> Can I assume this is a blown head gasget around # 3? What is the
> liklihood this is a cracked head? Should both head gaskets be replaced?
> Should I go ahead and have the heads machined or check with a
> straightedge and then if ok donÂ’t worry about it?
>
> I want this to run right but money is a factor. My salary has been cut
> recently due to the hard economic times. (Still thankful I have a job
> though).

Ditto on Kieth's comments.

I have a 2.8L Chevy V-6 that I'm putting into a Vega (slowly, very
slowly). I was concerned about the 2.8L because of it's reputation so I
checked with my (good) mechanic, and this is what he said:

The 2.8L (and the Hi-Po 3.4L that will hopefully still be
available when I'm ready for it) is a fine engine, But with
aluminum heads and an iron block you have to keep up on
your coolant maintenance (flushing and/or replacing the
corrosion inhibitors). If you don't, then water leaks into
the coolant and f***s up the bottom end, leading to the well-
known rep of these engines having a 'weak bottom end'.

I'd check that oil, and if there's a diagnostic I'd just pull the pan and
take a look at the bottom end bearings to see if they looked good, either
to see if there's a quickie fix I could do, or to see if I'd be better
off trashing the engine _before_ I did a bunch of expensive work on the
head.

--
http://www.wescottdesign.com

Posted by stryped on March 16, 2009, 1:51 pm
Please log in for more thread options
> On Mon, 16 Mar 2009 11:45:11 -0400, Keith Marshall wrote:
> > Have you looked at the oil? =A0You need to find out if water has gotten
> > into the oil. =A0I suspect it has since it overheated and that can be
> > really bad.
>
> > Pull the oil dipstick and hold a lighter or flame under it. =A0If there=
's
> > coolant in it you'll know because it'll boil out. =A0It also may look
> > foamy which usually means there's quite a bit of coolant in it.
>
> > We've had this happen to 2 vehicles and in both cases it was easy to fi=
x
> > and get them running again but they both failed soon after because the
> > bearings were ruined from lack of lubrication with the oil diluted so
> > much.
>
> > One of them was a 1997 Chevy Malibu and it was actually caused by a
> > cracked intake gasket which is (as I found out later) a known problem
> > with these. The car was like new with only 57k miles even though it was
> > 11 years old at the time.
>
> > The mechanic that worked on it was also not aware that this happened to
> > a lot of them. =A0He complained to my wife that she never changed the o=
il
> > and it was really sludged up. =A0I told him she's a fanatic about chang=
ing
> > it and questioned whether it might be antifreeze but he didn't think so=
.
>
> > After he replaced the gasket and got it running again it seemed to be
> > fine until she drove it more than 10 miles and then it died. =A0Turns o=
ut
> > the camshaft locked up at one end and broke in half because the cam
> > bearings were ruined by the "sludged up" oil.
>
> > We don't use this mechanic any more. :-(
>
> > Best Regards,
> > Keith Marshall
> > tooladd...@progressivelogic.com
>
> > "I'm not grown up enough to be so old!"
>
>
> > Well, I looked at the 2000 Dosge Dakota I have at home that was my
> > brothers. 1st I tried to start it but it had sat so long the battery wa=
s
> > dead. Charged the battery for a minute. Got it to crank a few times but
> > not start. I went ahead and took the plugs out:
>
> > 6 =3D 90psi 3 =3D 190 psi (120 checked later) 5 =3D 105 psi 2 =3D 90 ps=
i
> > 4 =3D 95 psi 1 =3D 95 psi
>
> > These are the compression readings and the order I checked them. 1 bein=
g
> > the drivers side front, 3 the drivers side back, 4 being passanger side
> > front, 6 being passanger side back. After checking all compression I
> > re-checked # 3 because of it being so much higher than the others. It
> > was 120 at this time.
>
> > When I pulled out the plugs the best I could tell they were ok. Looked
> > worn. Except number 3. It looked wet but not drenched. Also, On this
> > plug, the porcelane on the bottom of the plug around the gap was broken=
,
> > also, the grounding part that curves over (The part you adjust the gap)
> > was brken in half and missing.
>
> > Cranking with no spark plugs, light vaporized mist or or something came
> > from most of the holes but #3 I could tell had more coming out. It was
> > like water or droplets as I cranked much heavier than the rest.
>
> > I took a piece of winshield washer hose and stuck it down a few of the
> > spark plug holes and sucked with my mouth. (Probably not smart). Never
> > really got much of anythign out with the exception of #3. There was som=
e
> > gas in there but also a sweet taste. (Would this be antifreeze?)
>
> > Inside of radiator hose had brown granulated crud that I could pull out
> > with my finger. Almost looked like brown sugar but a more red color.
>
> > If I did not mention, truck has 151,000 on it. Overheated on my brother=
.
> > White smoke rolling out when it warmed up. When he had it towed to my
> > house, I started it right up and drove it about 200 feet to park it and
> > had no trouble at all and did not notice any sounds or anything unusual=
.
>
> > Can I assume this is a blown head gasget around # 3? What is the
> > liklihood this is a cracked head? Should both head gaskets be replaced?
> > Should I go ahead and have the heads machined or check with a
> > straightedge and then if ok don=92t worry about it?
>
> > I want this to run right but money is a factor. My salary has been cut
> > recently due to the hard economic times. (Still thankful I have a job
> > though).
>
> Ditto on Kieth's comments.
>
> I have a 2.8L Chevy V-6 that I'm putting into a Vega (slowly, very
> slowly). =A0I was concerned about the 2.8L because of it's reputation so =
I
> checked with my (good) mechanic, and this is what he said:
>
> =A0 The 2.8L (and the Hi-Po 3.4L that will hopefully still be
> =A0 available when I'm ready for it) is a fine engine, But with
> =A0 aluminum heads and an iron block you have to keep up on
> =A0 your coolant maintenance (flushing and/or replacing the
> =A0 corrosion inhibitors). =A0If you don't, then water leaks into
> =A0 the coolant and f***s up the bottom end, leading to the well-
> =A0 known rep of these engines having a 'weak bottom end'.
>
> I'd check that oil, and if there's a diagnostic I'd just pull the pan and
> take a look at the bottom end bearings to see if they looked good, either
> to see if there's a quickie fix I could do, or to see if I'd be better
> off trashing the engine _before_ I did a bunch of expensive work on the
> head.
>
> --http://www.wescottdesign.com- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

I checked the oil but not sure it is hard to tell. I will try the
lighter trick.

My intention is to fix it, drive it for awhile while I try to sell it.
But I dont want to spend that money if the bearings will go bad. Is
there a sure fire way to tell?

Is it the fact that the bearings were exposed to coolant or that the
coolant makes the oil less "viable" SInce the smoke incident, it has
not been driven but has sat. The oil has not been changed.

Did these Dodges use the Dex cool stuff??

Posted by Bill Noble on March 16, 2009, 5:17 pm
Please log in for more thread options

>> --http://www.wescottdesign.com- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

I checked the oil but not sure it is hard to tell. I will try the
lighter trick.

My intention is to fix it, drive it for awhile while I try to sell it.
But I dont want to spend that money if the bearings will go bad. Is
there a sure fire way to tell?

Is it the fact that the bearings were exposed to coolant or that the
coolant makes the oil less "viable" SInce the smoke incident, it has
not been driven but has sat. The oil has not been changed.

Did these Dodges use the Dex cool stuff??

----------------------------------
oil with coolant in it looks like chocolate (or coffee) icecream, and it has
about the same texture.If the oil still looks like oil, don't worry too
much - check the dip stick - if the oil level is normal, chances are that
you didn't get coolant in the oil.

could be a head gasket, or a crack in the cyl head or a crack in a cylinder



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