Re: Liability & responsibility of electrician?

>I have been asked to offer an opinion in a sensitive situation.
>
>A machinist moved his shop across town and required some rewiring (3-phase
>outlets, conduit, etc.) in order to locate some machines where he wanted
>them.
>
>He hires a guy who's not a pro (and later discovers is not insured) but has
>done shop wiring before and had a good attitude and track record. The guy
>does good work. No complaints about the quality of his work.
>
>Owner throws the switch, all works fine.
>
>The story continues 4 weeks later when the very expensive CNC fries its
>controller PCB to the tune of $4000.
>
>Turns out the voltage in the shop was upward of 245 and the taps in the CNC's
>power supply were set for 220.
>
>What is the legal and moral responsibility of each party?
>
>What will not be helpful are replies about the character or intelligence of
>either of the players or their actions.
>
>Thanks.

The "electrician" is culpable as it was found that the wiring was to
blame. That proof alone means that he would be culpable, regardless of
his credentials, or lack thereof.

The owner should bear some blame (as in be lenient in court) for trying
to economize costs in the wrong area (he should have paid the licensed
and insured electrician).

Also knowing how to hook up systems well, and knowing how to do a
proper requirements analysis are two different things and define some of
the differences between the grunt pulling the wires and the supervisor
laying out the plan and making sure that the machines and their power
sources are matched. Since a failure mode did occur, it would be
improper not to make a negative statement about the character of the
installer.

Also, though it was not a lack of intelligence that compelled the owner
to choose the riskier path, it does indicate a lack of wisdom, which I am
sure has received a boost due to these events already.

PS Cross-posting is lame.

Posted by Harold and Susan Vordos on July 5, 2009, 3:50 am

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snip----

>
> The "electrician" is culpable as it was found that the wiring was to
> blame. That proof alone means that he would be culpable, regardless of
> his credentials, or lack thereof.

Nonsense. The voltage at the panel has nothing to do with the wireman. It's
a function of the transformer at the pole. The voltage in my shop, wired
with three phase delta, is also upwards of 245 volts.

The only way a wireman could be responsible is if the panel was wired three
phase delta, with a high leg, and he had assigned the high leg to one of the
120 volt circuits, yielding 208 or more volts.

The voltage declared indicates that the service is, indeed, delta.

Harold

Posted by StickThatInYourPipeAndSmokeIt on July 5, 2009, 8:13 am

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On Sun, 05 Jul 2009 07:50:13 GMT, "Harold and Susan Vordos"

>
>snip----

>>
>> The "electrician" is culpable as it was found that the wiring was to
>> blame. That proof alone means that he would be culpable, regardless of
>> his credentials, or lack thereof.

>
>Nonsense.

Nonsense? Take your retarded queries elsewhere, crossposting, idiot,
troll fucktard.

> The voltage at the panel has nothing to do with the wireman. It's
>a function of the transformer at the pole. The voltage in my shop, wired
>with three phase delta, is also upwards of 245 volts.

When a man wires up a machine, it is his responsibility to make sure
that the machine he is connecting to power is set up for the voltage he
is providing to it.

>
>The only way a wireman could be responsible is if the panel was wired three
>phase delta, with a high leg, and he had assigned the high leg to one of the
>120 volt circuits, yielding 208 or more volts.

He is responsible because he did not perform the requirements analysis.

>
>The voltage declared indicates that the service is, indeed, delta.
>

Doesn't matter. The device to be powered must not be wired up with an
inappropriate feed, or fail to be set up to take the feed that is
provided.

Posted by Jamie on July 5, 2009, 7:22 pm

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StickThatInYourPipeAndSmokeIt wrote:

> On Sun, 05 Jul 2009 07:50:13 GMT, "Harold and Susan Vordos"
>
>

>>snip----
>>

>>> The "electrician" is culpable as it was found that the wiring was to
>>>blame. That proof alone means that he would be culpable, regardless of
>>>his credentials, or lack thereof.

>>
>>Nonsense.

>
>
> Nonsense? Take your retarded queries elsewhere, crossposting, idiot,
> troll fucktard.
>
>

>> The voltage at the panel has nothing to do with the wireman. It's
>>a function of the transformer at the pole. The voltage in my shop, wired
>>with three phase delta, is also upwards of 245 volts.

>
>
> When a man wires up a machine, it is his responsibility to make sure
> that the machine he is connecting to power is set up for the voltage he
> is providing to it.
>

>>The only way a wireman could be responsible is if the panel was wired three
>>phase delta, with a high leg, and he had assigned the high leg to one of the
>>120 volt circuits, yielding 208 or more volts.

>
>
> He is responsible because he did not perform the requirements analysis.
>
>

>>The voltage declared indicates that the service is, indeed, delta.
>>

>
>
> Doesn't matter. The device to be powered must not be wired up with an
> inappropriate feed, or fail to be set up to take the feed that is
> provided.

Well obviously you don't know much about the standards of electrical
codes, labeling and so on.
245V is very normal..

I would be a little more worried about voltages running on the
low side in shops like that.

Posted by StickThatInYourPipeAndSmokeIt on July 6, 2009, 4:03 am

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On Sun, 05 Jul 2009 19:22:36 -0400, Jamie

>StickThatInYourPipeAndSmokeIt wrote:
>

>> On Sun, 05 Jul 2009 07:50:13 GMT, "Harold and Susan Vordos"
>>
>>

>>>snip----
>>>
>>>> The "electrician" is culpable as it was found that the wiring was to
>>>>blame. That proof alone means that he would be culpable, regardless of
>>>>his credentials, or lack thereof.
>>>
>>>Nonsense.

>>
>>
>> Nonsense? Take your retarded queries elsewhere, crossposting, idiot,
>> troll fucktard.
>>
>>

>>> The voltage at the panel has nothing to do with the wireman. It's
>>>a function of the transformer at the pole. The voltage in my shop, wired
>>>with three phase delta, is also upwards of 245 volts.

>>
>>
>> When a man wires up a machine, it is his responsibility to make sure
>> that the machine he is connecting to power is set up for the voltage he
>> is providing to it.
>>

>>>The only way a wireman could be responsible is if the panel was wired three
>>>phase delta, with a high leg, and he had assigned the high leg to one of the
>>>120 volt circuits, yielding 208 or more volts.

>>
>>
>> He is responsible because he did not perform the requirements analysis.
>>
>>

>>>The voltage declared indicates that the service is, indeed, delta.
>>>

>>
>>
>> Doesn't matter. The device to be powered must not be wired up with an
>> inappropriate feed, or fail to be set up to take the feed that is
>> provided.

>Well obviously you don't know much about the standards of electrical
>codes, labeling and so on.
> 245V is very normal..

I never said it wasn't.

Hooking up 245 volts on the 220V tap, however, is an error on the
installer's part.

>
> I would be a little more worried about voltages running on the
>low side in shops like that.

The discussion is about proper hook ups and improper hookups, not what
you think one needs to worry about or not.

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