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Posted by Nick Mueller on April 29, 2008, 4:53 am
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Christopher Tidy wrote:
> In the sentences above, is "beams" the best translation of "Trägern", or
> is a more general term such as "members" or "specimens" more appropriate?
"Träger" is and can be something very general. Normaly it has the meaning of
beam (I-beam) or girder. In this context, it looks more like beam.
> Also, what does "Nutschweißbiegeversuch" mean to you?
Oh my good! :-) I have never heard of that. Google has three hits. Your
posting (LOL!) and two to the "Hütte" (that I do not have, I never liked
that book). Didn't find that in other books, too specific.
> The best translation I can figure out is "groove weld bending test",
Perfect. I would translate it the same way. "Nut" normally means more an
U-shaped groove but that doesn't make sense here. So I assume that "Nut" is
just any groove for welding (contrary to fillet welding). And bending
("...biege...") is not a dynamic test, contrary to
the "Schlag". "Kerbschlagbiegeversuch" being one of: notched bar impact
bending test; Charpy impact test; Izod test.
> But instead I'm assuming that it refers to a slow speed bending test
> where the bending moment required, or the degree of bending sustained
> before failure, is the quantity measured rather than energy.
Absolutely. I assume it is the bending angle at failure that gives the
number. Or the requirement is a minimum bending angle.
> "Experiments with welded beams to assess the suitability of the
> materials employed and the method of fabricating the beams. Testing the
> materials with the groove weld bending test and notched bar impact test."
Nothing to correct. If you translated that without knowing German, you get a
A+++ :-)
Wild guess:
The text is pre-60. And is about the problem of liquation ("Seigerung") of
sulfur in I-beams.
Nick
--
The lowcost-DRO:
<http://www.yadro.de>
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Posted by Christopher Tidy on April 30, 2008, 2:36 am
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Hi Nick,
Thanks very much for the response. Much appreciated!
>>In the sentences above, is "beams" the best translation of "Trägern", or
>>is a more general term such as "members" or "specimens" more appropriate?
>
>
> "Träger" is and can be something very general. Normaly it has the meaning of
> beam (I-beam) or girder. In this context, it looks more like beam.
I was assuming that it could have a pretty broad meaning, but I wasn't
sure if it could be even broader than "beam", such as perhaps a
"specimen". But I couldn't make that fit using a dictionary. Thanks for
clarifying it for me.
>>Also, what does "Nutschweißbiegeversuch" mean to you?
>
>
> Oh my good! :-) I have never heard of that. Google has three hits. Your
> posting (LOL!) and two to the "Hütte" (that I do not have, I never liked
> that book). Didn't find that in other books, too specific.
>
>
>>The best translation I can figure out is "groove weld bending test",
>
>
> Perfect. I would translate it the same way. "Nut" normally means more an
> U-shaped groove but that doesn't make sense here. So I assume that "Nut" is
> just any groove for welding (contrary to fillet welding). And bending
> ("...biege...") is not a dynamic test, contrary to
> the "Schlag". "Kerbschlagbiegeversuch" being one of: notched bar impact
> bending test; Charpy impact test; Izod test.
I'm assuming that it either refers to a groove made as a weld
preparation (as opposed to no preparation), or a large groove which the
beam is pressed into when being tested. Could it refer to a three-point
testing machine, in which a simply-supported beam is loaded in the
middle? Or doesn't that make any sense?
>>But instead I'm assuming that it refers to a slow speed bending test
>>where the bending moment required, or the degree of bending sustained
>>before failure, is the quantity measured rather than energy.
>
>
> Absolutely. I assume it is the bending angle at failure that gives the
> number. Or the requirement is a minimum bending angle.
>
>
>>"Experiments with welded beams to assess the suitability of the
>>materials employed and the method of fabricating the beams. Testing the
>>materials with the groove weld bending test and notched bar impact test."
>
>
> Nothing to correct. If you translated that without knowing German, you get a
> A+++ :-)
I know a bit of German. My written German is better than my spoken
German (because when reading, I have the time to figure out the
meaning). Some day I'd like to spend a few years in Germany and learn
the language properly.
> Wild guess:
> The text is pre-60. And is about the problem of liquation ("Seigerung") of
> sulfur in I-beams.
It's a text by Otto Graf, published in 1943, about the strength and
testing of welded structures. I am particularly interested in the
performance of welded structures when compared to hot-riveted
structures. I don't have the full text, just a summary, as it's a book
I'm thinking of buying. If I do, I'll get back to you with the meaning
of "Nutschweißbiegeversuch"!
Many thanks,
Chris
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Posted by Nick Mueller on April 30, 2008, 3:35 am
Please log in for more thread options Christopher Tidy wrote:
> I was assuming that it could have a pretty broad meaning, but I wasn't
> sure if it could be even broader than "beam", such as perhaps a
> "specimen". But I couldn't make that fit using a dictionary. Thanks for
> clarifying it for me.
No no. Not specimen. The problem with the word "Träger" is, that it denotes
an I-beam ("Doppel-T Träger") or some carrier ("Flugzeugträger"). So it can
be something from simple to a complex structure, as long as it has to carry
some load.
[For confusion:
Under the microscope, the specimen is put onto a "Träger"]
> I'm assuming that it either refers to a groove made as a weld
> preparation (as opposed to no preparation),
Yes.
> Could it refer to a three-point
> testing machine, in which a simply-supported beam is loaded in the
> middle? Or doesn't that make any sense?
No. Because "Nut" is something smallish. Certainly not big enough to bend an
I-beam into. :-)
> It's a text by Otto Graf, published in 1943, about the strength and
> testing of welded structures.
Ah! That explains why I couldn't google the word. A lost procedure. And I
have no old books about welding.
Nick
--
The lowcost-DRO:
<http://www.yadro.de>
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Posted by Leon Fisk on April 30, 2008, 1:09 pm
Please log in for more thread options On Wed, 30 Apr 2008 09:35:39 +0200, Nick Mueller
>Christopher Tidy wrote:
>
>> I was assuming that it could have a pretty broad meaning, but I wasn't
>> sure if it could be even broader than "beam", such as perhaps a
>> "specimen". But I couldn't make that fit using a dictionary. Thanks for
>> clarifying it for me.
>
>No no. Not specimen. The problem with the word "Träger" is, that it denotes
>an I-beam ("Doppel-T Träger") or some carrier ("Flugzeugträger"). So it can
>be something from simple to a complex structure, as long as it has to carry
>some load.
>
>[For confusion:
>Under the microscope, the specimen is put onto a "Träger"]
>
>> I'm assuming that it either refers to a groove made as a weld
>> preparation (as opposed to no preparation),
>
>Yes.
>
>> Could it refer to a three-point
>> testing machine, in which a simply-supported beam is loaded in the
>> middle? Or doesn't that make any sense?
>
>No. Because "Nut" is something smallish. Certainly not big enough to bend an
>I-beam into. :-)
>
>> It's a text by Otto Graf, published in 1943, about the strength and
>> testing of welded structures.
>
>Ah! That explains why I couldn't google the word. A lost procedure. And I
>have no old books about welding.
>
>
>Nick
I suspect this is a slightly newer edition of the book Chris
is considering:
Versuche über die Widerstandsfähigkeit von geschweissten
Querträgeranschlüssen bei oftmals wiederholter
Biegebelastung
by Otto Graf; Fritz Munzinger
Type: Book; German
Publisher: Berlin, Springer, 1952.
OCLC: 31331779
Related Subjects: Welded joints -- Testing. | Steel,
Structural -- Testing.
http://worldcat.org/wcpa/oclc/31331779
There is suppose to be a copy at Die Deutsche
Nationalbibliothek, Frankfurt AM Main, D-60322 Germany in
case you are really curious Nick :)
--
Leon Fisk
Grand Rapids MI/Zone 5b
Remove no.spam for email
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Posted by Christopher Tidy on May 1, 2008, 10:13 pm
Please log in for more thread options Nick Mueller wrote:
> Christopher Tidy wrote:
>
>
>>I was assuming that it could have a pretty broad meaning, but I wasn't
>>sure if it could be even broader than "beam", such as perhaps a
>>"specimen". But I couldn't make that fit using a dictionary. Thanks for
>>clarifying it for me.
>
>
> No no. Not specimen. The problem with the word "Träger" is, that it denotes
> an I-beam ("Doppel-T Träger") or some carrier ("Flugzeugträger"). So it can
> be something from simple to a complex structure, as long as it has to carry
> some load.
>
> [For confusion:
> Under the microscope, the specimen is put onto a "Träger"]
Okay. So "carrier" has to be part of the meaning.
>>Could it refer to a three-point
>>testing machine, in which a simply-supported beam is loaded in the
>>middle? Or doesn't that make any sense?
>
>
> No. Because "Nut" is something smallish. Certainly not big enough to bend an
> I-beam into. :-)
Thanks. These little differences are where it's really useful to have
the assistance of a native speaker.
Best wishes,
Chris
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> is a more general term such as "members" or "specimens" more appropriate?