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Posted by DoN. Nichols on May 8, 2008, 6:03 pm
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>
[ ... ]
>> With a shorter total dovetail, there is less linear travel
>> before the gib gets too far off center to give proper support. Assuming
>> that the taper is along the length rather than the width, which would
>> require an interesting adjustment system.
>
> Well, in theory yes, but the gib adjustment range is the same for both
> dovetails. The taper is indeed along the length, and is the same (5/32"
> per foot) in both gibs.
O.K. So they didn't give an extra adjustment range to the
cross-slide, even though they could have.
[ ... ]
>> > But the tool is upsidedown, so that won't happen. Well, not often.
>>
>> One of the benefits of upside down is that chips tend to fall
>> out of the cut. But with a long curl, you would have the chip feeding
>> back cycle after cycle until there was enough to drag into the cutter
>> from pure edge friction.
>
> The tool tip is slightly angled, and so the chip usually curls into a
> helix, versus a tight jellyroll.
O.K. And if the tip has a shallow 'V' in the top, it will make
the chip narrower than the slot, to reduce the chances of catching.
[ ... ]
>> And only a fool says that a system is hack-proof (using the
>> wrong sense of "hack".) I prefer to call that "cracking", as it has no
>> constructive target.
>
> I don't think the hack/crack distinction has any traction in the
> language at large. White hat versus black hat seems to be how the
> distinction is made.
Yes -- it is a lost cause -- though it *used* to be a term of
praise.
[ ... ]
>> >> > Now, Microsoft is slowly changing Windows so people don't have to run
>> >> > their software from an administrator account, but this is like turning
>> >> > the Queen Mary. But it five or ten years it will have been done.
>> >>
>> >> If they are still around by then. :-)
>> >
>> > Oh, they will for sure, It's damn near impossible for a billion dollar
>> > company to fail, even if they try real hard.
>>
>> They appear to be trying "real hard". :-)
>
> Well, they have always been good at understanding their business. After
> all, they managed to achieve 90% market share selling products that were
> far from "best in their class" technically.
:-)
[ ... ]
[ ... ]
>> > I found the drag to be a problem.
>>
>> Well ... it needs to be just right. Too loose and vibration
>> will change it -- even with a balanced crank. Too tight, and it is easy
>> to overshoot when you get past the friction limit. Just right and you
>> can steady the crank with one hand as you loosen the thumbscrew, rotate
>> the outer dial, and re-tighten the thumbscrew.
>
> Thumbscrew? Mine came with hex socket cap machine screws riding on
> brass slugs. Hmm. The 5914 manual shows knurled thumbscrews, also
> riding on brass slugs. So both thumbscrews were lost and replaced. The
> cap screws are clumsy to use.
Mine had one thumbscrew and one cap screw, so I ordered a
thumbscrew along with the leadscrew and T-nut for the cross-slide.
[ ... ]
>> There are some larger Logans, I think. We've got an expert on
>> the newsgroup -- Scott Logan.
>
> Yes, there are suitable 1000# Logan lathes, but none came onto the local
> market while I was looking. Logans were a definite possibility because
> Logan Actuator still exists and still supports their old iron.
Yes. I guess that more of the Logan lathes were sold in the
hobbist size range, so we don't see the larger ones coming up on the
used market very often.
[ ... Nichols mill ... ]
>> > Someday. Space is my issue. I saw a local Nichols horizontal hand mill
>> > go for ~$500 about six months ago. There were few takers.
>>
>> Mine was $200.00 on eBay -- and cost more to ship down to the DC
>> area from the Boston area. :-)
>
> That's a bit of a drive. How much did the shipping cost, and what year
> was this? Perhaps I should have considered non-local sources.
I don't remember for sure, but I think about $240.00. And this
was back around 2000 I think.
Enjoy,
DoN.
--
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---
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Posted by Joseph Gwinn on May 8, 2008, 11:27 pm
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> >
>
> [ ... ]
>
> >> > But the tool is upsidedown, so that won't happen. Well, not often.
> >>
> >> One of the benefits of upside down is that chips tend to fall
> >> out of the cut. But with a long curl, you would have the chip feeding
> >> back cycle after cycle until there was enough to drag into the cutter
> >> from pure edge friction.
> >
> > The tool tip is slightly angled, and so the chip usually curls into a
> > helix, versus a tight jellyroll.
>
> O.K. And if the tip has a shallow 'V' in the top, it will make
> the chip narrower than the slot, to reduce the chances of catching.
Yes, although I have not had that problem if I can prevent self-feeding
and overly thick chips.
I've been looking for a cutoff tool that can be used in front, but with
reverse rotation. The BXA7R doesn't actually work for this, instead
being intended for use on the back side of a forward rotating workpiece.
What is needed is the mirror image of a BXA-7, versus an upside-down
BXA-7.
I've also been looking at the Aloris holder for SGIH blades, BXA-77.
However, it isn't clear that one can use upsidedown blades in this
holder, as the bevels on the blade are not symmetrical.
Perhaps the best solution is to install a cutoff tool bar with
rectangular shank upsidedown in a regular tool holder.
> [ ... ]
>
> >> > I found the drag to be a problem.
> >>
> >> Well ... it needs to be just right. Too loose and vibration
> >> will change it -- even with a balanced crank. Too tight, and it is easy
> >> to overshoot when you get past the friction limit. Just right and you
> >> can steady the crank with one hand as you loosen the thumbscrew, rotate
> >> the outer dial, and re-tighten the thumbscrew.
> >
> > Thumbscrew? Mine came with hex socket cap machine screws riding on
> > brass slugs. Hmm. The 5914 manual shows knurled thumbscrews, also
> > riding on brass slugs. So both thumbscrews were lost and replaced. The
> > cap screws are clumsy to use.
>
> Mine had one thumbscrew and one cap screw, so I ordered a
> thumbscrew along with the leadscrew and T-nut for the cross-slide.
I may do the same. I'm close to ordering a T-nut for the cross-slide
screw.
> [ ... ]
>
> >> There are some larger Logans, I think. We've got an expert on
> >> the newsgroup -- Scott Logan.
> >
> > Yes, there are suitable 1000# Logan lathes, but none came onto the local
> > market while I was looking. Logans were a definite possibility because
> > Logan Actuator still exists and still supports their old iron.
>
> Yes. I guess that more of the Logan lathes were sold in the
> hobbist size range, so we don't see the larger ones coming up on the
> used market very often.
Actually, one did go by, at Gold Machinery in Rhode Island, but before I
was ready to buy anything. So did a Clausing 5914 for that matter.
Gold's reputation around Boston is that they are expensive, but have
good stuff. <http://goldmachinery.com/machinery/index.htm>
> [ ... Nichols mill ... ]
>
> >> > Someday. Space is my issue. I saw a local Nichols horizontal hand mill
> >> > go for ~$500 about six months ago. There were few takers.
> >>
> >> Mine was $200.00 on eBay -- and cost more to ship down to the DC
> >> area from the Boston area. :-)
> >
> > That's a bit of a drive. How much did the shipping cost, and what year
> > was this? Perhaps I should have considered non-local sources.
>
> I don't remember for sure, but I think about $240.00. And this
> was back around 2000 I think.
Even with eight years of inflation, not such a bad price. One problem I
had with getting stuff from Gold Machinery was the distance. Perhaps it
was not as big a problem as feared.
Joe Gwinn
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Posted by DoN. Nichols on May 8, 2008, 11:27 pm
Please log in for more thread options I had to fold the "References: " header again. It got too long for
jove to accept on a single line. :-) Then I had to create my own
} Message-Id: because that was where jove was snipping things off
when following-up.
Perhaps we should start trimming the end of the References
header every reply if we're going to keep this long a thread going. Of
course, it will mess up threading, but at least it won't hit the 1024
byte line length limit on jove -- or force me to move to emacs. :-)
[ ... ]
> > O.K. And if the tip has a shallow 'V' in the top, it will make
> > the chip narrower than the slot, to reduce the chances of catching.
>
> Yes, although I have not had that problem if I can prevent self-feeding
> and overly thick chips.
O.K.
> I've been looking for a cutoff tool that can be used in front, but with
> reverse rotation. The BXA7R doesn't actually work for this, instead
> being intended for use on the back side of a forward rotating workpiece.
> What is needed is the mirror image of a BXA-7, versus an upside-down
> BXA-7.
So -- make your own using the design of the Aloris one. The
main trick is getting the dovetail width and depth right. The trick for
measuring the width is to measure between two pieces of drill rod pushed
into the 'V's.
> I've also been looking at the Aloris holder for SGIH blades, BXA-77.
> However, it isn't clear that one can use upsidedown blades in this
> holder, as the bevels on the blade are not symmetrical.
>
> Perhaps the best solution is to install a cutoff tool bar with
> rectangular shank upsidedown in a regular tool holder.
Perhaps. Or make something which you can clamp in the regular
holder but which will hold the blade of your choice upside down.
[ ... ]
> > > Thumbscrew? Mine came with hex socket cap machine screws riding on
> > > brass slugs. Hmm. The 5914 manual shows knurled thumbscrews, also
> > > riding on brass slugs. So both thumbscrews were lost and replaced. The
> > > cap screws are clumsy to use.
> >
> > Mine had one thumbscrew and one cap screw, so I ordered a
> > thumbscrew along with the leadscrew and T-nut for the cross-slide.
>
> I may do the same. I'm close to ordering a T-nut for the cross-slide
> screw.
They were pretty cheap when I got mine -- at least by comparison
with everything else which I ordered. (Oh yes -- the felts for the
carriage-to-ways interface were pretty cheap, too.
[ ... ]
> > Yes. I guess that more of the Logan lathes were sold in the
> > hobbist size range, so we don't see the larger ones coming up on the
> > used market very often.
>
> Actually, one did go by, at Gold Machinery in Rhode Island, but before I
> was ready to buy anything. So did a Clausing 5914 for that matter.
>
> Gold's reputation around Boston is that they are expensive, but have
> good stuff. <http://goldmachinery.com/machinery/index.htm>
O.K. I'm retired too long to have the money to buy more large
tools, so that will simply be filed in memory somewhere in case I win a
*real* lottery instead of all the fake ones I get e-mails about. :-)
[ ... ]
> > >> Mine was $200.00 on eBay -- and cost more to ship down to the DC
> > >> area from the Boston area. :-)
> > >
> > > That's a bit of a drive. How much did the shipping cost, and what year
> > > was this? Perhaps I should have considered non-local sources.
> >
> > I don't remember for sure, but I think about $240.00. And this
> > was back around 2000 I think.
>
> Even with eight years of inflation, not such a bad price. One problem I
> had with getting stuff from Gold Machinery was the distance. Perhaps it
> was not as big a problem as feared.
Perhaps. But the prices will probably change on a day-to-day
basis with the fuel costs.
Good Luck,
DoN.
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Posted by Joseph Gwinn on May 9, 2008, 11:21 am
Please log in for more thread options
> I had to fold the "References: " header again. It got too long for
> jove to accept on a single line. :-) Then I had to create my own
> } Message-Id: because that was where jove was snipping things off
> when following-up.
>
> Perhaps we should start trimming the end of the References
> header every reply if we're going to keep this long a thread going. Of
> course, it will mess up threading, but at least it won't hit the 1024
> byte line length limit on jove -- or force me to move to emacs. :-)
I never delved into how the threading mechanism works, and the nesting
gets pretty deep and sometimes complex, but perhaps there is a clever
way to prune.
Perhaps it's best to start a daughter thread of the same title.
>
> [ ... ]
>
> > > O.K. And if the tip has a shallow 'V' in the top, it will make
> > > the chip narrower than the slot, to reduce the chances of catching.
> >
> > Yes, although I have not had that problem if I can prevent self-feeding
> > and overly thick chips.
>
> O.K.
Most of the stuff I would cut off are not that large, so a narrower
blade is also useful, and it reduces the force causing all the problems.
> > I've been looking for a cutoff tool that can be used in front, but with
> > reverse rotation. The BXA7R doesn't actually work for this, instead
> > being intended for use on the back side of a forward rotating workpiece.
> > What is needed is the mirror image of a BXA-7, versus an upside-down
> > BXA-7.
>
> So -- make your own using the design of the Aloris one. The
> main trick is getting the dovetail width and depth right. The trick for
> measuring the width is to measure between two pieces of drill rod pushed
> into the 'V's.
Hmm. The BXA-7R would be a lot of trouble to duplicate in full, but it
is certainly practical to duplicate the BXA dovetail, allowing me to
make special BXA toolholders.
> > I've also been looking at the Aloris holder for SGIH blades, BXA-77.
> > However, it isn't clear that one can use upsidedown blades in this
> > holder, as the bevels on the blade are not symmetrical.
> >
> > Perhaps the best solution is to install a cutoff tool bar with
> > rectangular shank upsidedown in a regular tool holder.
>
> Perhaps. Or make something which you can clamp in the regular
> holder but which will hold the blade of your choice upside down.
I received a somewhat beat up Hardinge C31 cutoff blade holder with the
lathe. The C31 is designed to be clamped in the slot of a toolholder in
their CHNC line. Google for "HARDINGE CHNC TOOLING.PDF".
Nor would it be difficult to make one's own mirror image C31. The only
problem with this approach is the large overhang, 3.5" versus 2" from
the center of the 5/8-20 bolt clamping the toolpost to the slide.
One could make a mirror-image C31 with a BXA dovetail, but the two
designs are pulling in different directions. The C31 has a very deep
horizontal slit which closes slightly when two hex socket cap screws are
tightened, thus bringing the top and bottom of the blade groove
together, clamping the blade. The bending caused by clamping would tend
to distort the dovetail, unless a second slit were provided. The second
slit would orphan part of the dovetail. This needs some design analysis.
I think I'll also troll in the catalogs of BXA-compatible toolpost
vendors for ideas and/or products.
> [ ... ]
>
> > > > Thumbscrew? Mine came with hex socket cap machine screws riding on
> > > > brass slugs. Hmm. The 5914 manual shows knurled thumbscrews, also
> > > > riding on brass slugs. So both thumbscrews were lost and replaced.
> > > > The
> > > > cap screws are clumsy to use.
> > >
> > > Mine had one thumbscrew and one cap screw, so I ordered a
> > > thumbscrew along with the leadscrew and T-nut for the cross-slide.
> >
> > I may do the same. I'm close to ordering a T-nut for the cross-slide
> > screw.
>
> They were pretty cheap when I got mine -- at least by comparison
> with everything else which I ordered. (Oh yes -- the felts for the
> carriage-to-ways interface were pretty cheap, too.
Felts. The left front carriage wiper always leaves a black dirty-oil
trail in the bed way. Solvent cleaning didn't help, although continuous
flushing by over-oiling with Vactra #2 is helping.
I should see if the black is coming from the carriage versus the felt,
as I have not yet disassembled and cleaned this part of the lathe.
> [ ... ]
>
> > > Yes. I guess that more of the Logan lathes were sold in the
> > > hobbist size range, so we don't see the larger ones coming up on the
> > > used market very often.
> >
> > Actually, one did go by, at Gold Machinery in Rhode Island, but before I
> > was ready to buy anything. So did a Clausing 5914 for that matter.
> >
> > Gold's reputation around Boston is that they are expensive, but have
> > good stuff. <http://goldmachinery.com/machinery/index.htm>
>
> O.K. I'm retired too long to have the money to buy more large
> tools, so that will simply be filed in memory somewhere in case I win a
> *real* lottery instead of all the fake ones I get e-mails about. :-)
Who knows. Maybe that nice man from West Africa will arrive with the
$20 million he promised. Maybe.
More seriously, I'm wondering if the more expensive machine might prove
cheaper, as I will probably end up spending the difference on new parts.
Although it has certainly been educational.
> [ ... ]
>
> > > >> Mine was $200.00 on eBay -- and cost more to ship down to the DC
> > > >> area from the Boston area. :-)
> > > >
> > > > That's a bit of a drive. How much did the shipping cost, and what year
> > > > was this? Perhaps I should have considered non-local sources.
> > >
> > > I don't remember for sure, but I think about $240.00. And this
> > > was back around 2000 I think.
> >
> > Even with eight years of inflation, not such a bad price. One problem I
> > had with getting stuff from Gold Machinery was the distance. Perhaps it
> > was not as big a problem as feared.
>
> Perhaps. But the prices will probably change on a day-to-day
> basis with the fuel costs.
True enough, but probably not the biggest cost.
Joe Gwinn
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Posted by James Waldby on May 9, 2008, 12:45 pm
Please log in for more thread options On Fri, 09 May 2008 11:21:48 -0400, Joseph Gwinn wrote:
>
>> I had to fold the "References: " header again. It got too long for
>> jove to accept on a single line. :-) Then I had to create my own }
>> Message-Id: because that was where jove was snipping things off when
>> following-up.
>>
>> Perhaps we should start trimming the end of the References
>> header every reply if we're going to keep this long a thread going. Of
>> course, it will mess up threading, but at least it won't hit the 1024
>> byte line length limit on jove -- or force me to move to emacs. :-)
>
> I never delved into how the threading mechanism works, and the nesting
> gets pretty deep and sometimes complex, but perhaps there is a clever
> way to prune.
You or DoN could delete a few references out of the middle of
the list.
Note, if you turn off MT-NewsWatcher's Message-ID generation as at
http://www.smfr.org/mtnw/docs/Personalities.html#no_message_ID
and let the news server generate message id's instead, I think
you'll get somewhat shorter id's. Your id's are like:
joegwinn-17785C.10355503052008@comcast.dca.giganews.com.msg
which is about 25% longer than the average server-generated
message id and about 50% longer than the pan-generated id's
in my posts, which are short due to a short fake domain name.
slrn and MTNW could do likewise, although id collisions can
occur in certain cases; eg, if two pan users with same domain
post articles within the same second.
> Perhaps it's best to start a daughter thread of the same title.
Sacrilege.
-jiw
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