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Posted by Ed Huntress on April 14, 2008, 12:40 am
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>>> "> >Try this philosophy:
>>>>
>>>> > I spend it ...
>>>>
>>>> >Where I make it ...
>>>>
>>>> >Millwright Ron
>>>> >www.unionmillwright.com
>>>>
>>>> So what do you buy in a septic tank???
>>>>
>>>> Gunner
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> So you do not believe in supporting your local economy?????
>>>
>>> I don't think he said that at all...
>>>
>>> ...I think he's just a little more than a little tired of your constant
>>> dribbling/foaming at the mouth.
>>>
>>> As to your original statement about spending it where you make it, I
>>> trust that means that you'll be giving up your computer and your TV and
>>> toaster and, well, you get the point.
>>>
>>> Or maybe you don't...I'll spell it out for you...
>>>
>>> THEY DON'T MAKE THEM HERE ANYMORE
>>>
>>> Why?
>>>
>>> Among other things, the unions priced themselves out of jobs by
>>> demanding more for the job than it was worth.
>>>
>>> Mike
>>
>> And what's it worth, Mike? The Chinese charge $0.80/hour. Is that what
>> it's worth?
>>
>> --
>> Ed Huntress
>
> I'm not trying to say that the jobs should only be worth $0.80 an hour.
>
> I do believe that the $35.00 PLUS to start that they get at the local GM
> plant to bolt a freaking bumper on a truck is just a TAD bit out of line.
> Can you say that the craft that I've worked at learning for the last 35
> years or so is worth less than what it takes to drive a few bolts? GM,
> Ford and the UAW seem to think so.
>
> Mike
So, what's the correct wage for them, Mike? How much can they be paid so
they won't be "pricing themselves out of a job," so that things will be made
here again instead of in China?
--
Ed Huntress
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Posted by Jon Danniken on April 14, 2008, 7:54 am
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"Ed Huntress" wrote:>
> "The Davenport's" wrote:
>> I do believe that the $35.00 PLUS to start that they get at the local GM
>> plant to bolt a freaking bumper on a truck is just a TAD bit out of line.
>> Can you say that the craft that I've worked at learning for the last 35
>> years or so is worth less than what it takes to drive a few bolts? GM,
>> Ford and the UAW seem to think so.
>>
>> Mike
>
> So, what's the correct wage for them, Mike? How much can they be paid so
> they won't be "pricing themselves out of a job," so that things will be
> made here again instead of in China?
Minimum wage plus maybe another buck or two depending upon the region.
After 90 days, if they are doing well, give 'em an additional buck or two
raise. After six months, a co-pay dental plan. After a year, another
raise, with more benefits; additional raises would be dependent upon
additional skill sets/ abilities learned.
Jon
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Posted by Ed Huntress on April 14, 2008, 8:27 am
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> "Ed Huntress" wrote:>
>> "The Davenport's" wrote:
>>> I do believe that the $35.00 PLUS to start that they get at the local GM
>>> plant to bolt a freaking bumper on a truck is just a TAD bit out of
>>> line. Can you say that the craft that I've worked at learning for the
>>> last 35 years or so is worth less than what it takes to drive a few
>>> bolts? GM, Ford and the UAW seem to think so.
>>>
>>> Mike
>>
>> So, what's the correct wage for them, Mike? How much can they be paid so
>> they won't be "pricing themselves out of a job," so that things will be
>> made here again instead of in China?
>
> Minimum wage plus maybe another buck or two depending upon the region.
> After 90 days, if they are doing well, give 'em an additional buck or two
> raise. After six months, a co-pay dental plan. After a year, another
> raise, with more benefits; additional raises would be dependent upon
> additional skill sets/ abilities learned.
>
> Jon
And how would that keep from "pricing them out of a job," against foreign
low-wage competition, Jon? After NAFTA, a lot of plants moved to Mexico,
where they were (at the time) paying $1.10/hour. It's a bit higher than that
now ($1.70/hour?). And as China opened up, a fairly long list of US plants
that had moved to Mexico picked up and moved to China. The Mexicans had
"priced themselves out of a job" at $1.70/hour.
It looks like those jobs were going away no matter what wages were in the
US. In other words, wages had little to do with it. The only question was
whether the unions were going to lay down and go quietly, like some people
seem to prefer, or whether they would put up a fight.
After years of reporting on it and thinking about it, my conclusion is that
it's just another case of scapegoating to try to explain why globalization
has gutted a lot of semi-skilled and even highly skilled employment in the
US and other major economies. And the scapegoaters seem to lack an ability
to do a little basic arithmetic.
--
Ed Huntress
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Posted by Wes on April 14, 2008, 9:34 am
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>And how would that keep from "pricing them out of a job," against foreign
>low-wage competition, Jon? After NAFTA, a lot of plants moved to Mexico,
>where they were (at the time) paying $1.10/hour. It's a bit higher than that
>now ($1.70/hour?). And as China opened up, a fairly long list of US plants
>that had moved to Mexico picked up and moved to China. The Mexicans had
>"priced themselves out of a job" at $1.70/hour.
Somehow I think China is going to price themselves out of a job and some
work will flow back to Mexico. Maybe we well get a few scraps out of it.
Wes
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Posted by Ed Huntress on April 14, 2008, 10:00 am
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>
>>And how would that keep from "pricing them out of a job," against foreign
>>low-wage competition, Jon? After NAFTA, a lot of plants moved to Mexico,
>>where they were (at the time) paying $1.10/hour. It's a bit higher than
>>that
>>now ($1.70/hour?). And as China opened up, a fairly long list of US plants
>>that had moved to Mexico picked up and moved to China. The Mexicans had
>>"priced themselves out of a job" at $1.70/hour.
>
> Somehow I think China is going to price themselves out of a job and some
> work will flow back to Mexico. Maybe we well get a few scraps out of it.
>
> Wes
Eventually, that may happen. Although I don't think it's Mexico that the
work will go to. More likely it will be Africa, I'm guessing.
The problem with the theories about global trade is that they make several
assumptions that don't work out as the world and technology evolve, and that
they ignore the fact that, in the long run, we're all dead.
--
Ed Huntress
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>>>>
>>>> > I spend it ...
>>>>
>>>> >Where I make it ...
>>>>
>>>> >Millwright Ron
>>>> >www.unionmillwright.com
>>>>
>>>> So what do you buy in a septic tank???
>>>>
>>>> Gunner
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> So you do not believe in supporting your local economy?????
>>>
>>> I don't think he said that at all...
>>>
>>> ...I think he's just a little more than a little tired of your constant
>>> dribbling/foaming at the mouth.
>>>
>>> As to your original statement about spending it where you make it, I
>>> trust that means that you'll be giving up your computer and your TV and
>>> toaster and, well, you get the point.
>>>
>>> Or maybe you don't...I'll spell it out for you...
>>>
>>> THEY DON'T MAKE THEM HERE ANYMORE
>>>
>>> Why?
>>>
>>> Among other things, the unions priced themselves out of jobs by
>>> demanding more for the job than it was worth.
>>>
>>> Mike