Which screws for this project?

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Subject Author Date
Which screws for this project? John Doe 06-26-2008
Posted by John Doe on June 26, 2008, 4:38 pm
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Note: In order to avoid wasting your time, please be advised that
welding is not currently an option here. Thanks for your
understanding.

I like these skates a lot, planning to make slight variations.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/27532210@N04/2565924423/

The aluminum flat bar is 1/16" thick from McMaster. Seems springier
than Lowe's aluminum and apparently harder so it doesn't clog my
tools.

After sanding the sides of the skate frame and the wheel fork (the two
aluminum flat bar pieces), the pieces are coated and Super glued
together. The wheel ends up precisely aligned.

The skates are taking a beating, that's what they're for. Most of the
forces are shearing type. Twisting pressure is handled by the
flexibility of the frame. I have high confidence in the bond,
otherwise I wouldn't be skating on them (away from cars and with lots
of protective gear). At the same time, I would like to provide a
better backup fastening than the single cheap screw currently being
used.

I would ask about screw placement, but that's probably a fine detail
that I should determine here. The current single screw is where I
think the bond is most likely to fail. I'll probably use more screws.

Again, the aluminum flat bar is 1/16" thick.
The skate frame thickness is somewhere between 1/16 and 1/8". I don't
know exactly, but I think it's a pretty hard alloy of some type.

Which of these McMaster machine screws would be most nearly
acceptable?

... 6-32 or 8-32 Thread

... Black-Oxide Fnsh Pan Head Phil 18-8 SS

... 300 SS Pan Head Phil, specifications met... FF-S-92, QQ-P-35, MIL
51957, and passivated

Is there a matching nut for a rated screw like that? How important is
a nut on the other side of the threaded hole? I'll probably use
superglue to secure the screw.

Thank you.






Posted by RoyJ on June 26, 2008, 5:51 pm
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If you are trying to resist shear forces, you want the screw as large as
possible in diameter and you want to avoid having the threaded portion
in contact with the plates in shear.

The bolt strength is not going to be terribly important, the aluminum
has a unknown strength but certainly less than half that of the bolt.

My first choice would be a socket head cap screw in black phosphate
finish but all of those are fully threaded until you get to over an inch
long.

Using a locking nut (Nylock) would be a good idea in this high vibration
application.

You didn't ask but I would be looking at using a fairly high strength
aluminum like 6061-T6 rather some no name, no grade wimpy stuff from the
hardware store.

John Doe wrote:
> Note: In order to avoid wasting your time, please be advised that
> welding is not currently an option here. Thanks for your
> understanding.
>
> I like these skates a lot, planning to make slight variations.
>
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/27532210@N04/2565924423/
>
> The aluminum flat bar is 1/16" thick from McMaster. Seems springier
> than Lowe's aluminum and apparently harder so it doesn't clog my
> tools.
>
> After sanding the sides of the skate frame and the wheel fork (the two
> aluminum flat bar pieces), the pieces are coated and Super glued
> together. The wheel ends up precisely aligned.
>
> The skates are taking a beating, that's what they're for. Most of the
> forces are shearing type. Twisting pressure is handled by the
> flexibility of the frame. I have high confidence in the bond,
> otherwise I wouldn't be skating on them (away from cars and with lots
> of protective gear). At the same time, I would like to provide a
> better backup fastening than the single cheap screw currently being
> used.
>
> I would ask about screw placement, but that's probably a fine detail
> that I should determine here. The current single screw is where I
> think the bond is most likely to fail. I'll probably use more screws.
>
> Again, the aluminum flat bar is 1/16" thick.
> The skate frame thickness is somewhere between 1/16 and 1/8". I don't
> know exactly, but I think it's a pretty hard alloy of some type.
>
> Which of these McMaster machine screws would be most nearly
> acceptable?
>
> ... 6-32 or 8-32 Thread
>
> ... Black-Oxide Fnsh Pan Head Phil 18-8 SS
>
> ... 300 SS Pan Head Phil, specifications met... FF-S-92, QQ-P-35, MIL
> 51957, and passivated
>
> Is there a matching nut for a rated screw like that? How important is
> a nut on the other side of the threaded hole? I'll probably use
> superglue to secure the screw.
>
> Thank you.
>
>
>
>
>

Posted by John Doe on June 26, 2008, 8:22 pm
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> If you are trying to resist shear forces,

I expect the glue to resist the shear forces. The screws are only
(hopefully) to temporarily keep the thing from flying apart if the
glue fails. Then everything would be remade.

> you want the screw as large as
> possible in diameter and you want to avoid having the threaded
> portion in contact with the plates in shear.

Yes, that sounds desirable, however unlikely.

> The bolt strength is not going to be terribly important, the
> aluminum has a unknown strength but certainly less than half that
> of the bolt.
>
> My first choice would be a socket head cap screw in black
> phosphate finish but all of those are fully threaded until you get
> to over an inch long.
>
> Using a locking nut (Nylock) would be a good idea in this high
> vibration application.
>
> You didn't ask but I would be looking at using a fairly high
> strength aluminum like 6061-T6

Yeah, it's general-purpose 6060 or 6061 from McMaster. Once I know
what's needed, I would consider going for better aluminum.



Posted by Steve W. on June 26, 2008, 6:18 pm
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John Doe wrote:
> Note: In order to avoid wasting your time, please be advised that
> welding is not currently an option here. Thanks for your
> understanding.
>
> I like these skates a lot, planning to make slight variations.
>
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/27532210@N04/2565924423/
>
> The aluminum flat bar is 1/16" thick from McMaster. Seems springier
> than Lowe's aluminum and apparently harder so it doesn't clog my
> tools.
>snip<

Looking at the picture I would toss the aluminum your using. Get some
wider material and make a longer piece that can go along the sides of
the current frame and catch at least one of the existing wheel bolts.
Maybe even use sheet stock and bend it so that it can use the toe area
on the shoe as a brace.

Then on the nose area that you have one screw I would add a second. One
closer to the top and bottom to spread the clamping across the part.
That would give you three total hard connection points. Screw wise I
would use stainless 10-32 and short rivnuts.


I would toss the Super Glue. Get some GOOD epoxy and use that. With
the understanding that the failures you will likely see at the bonded
areas will likely be from aluminum oxide forming under the glue.

Or you could just go buy a pair of the inlines that are sold for off
road use.
http://1800wwsports.stores.yahoo.net/rolcoyoffroa.html
Rollerblade Coyote

--
Steve W.

Posted by John Doe on June 26, 2008, 8:11 pm
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> John Doe wrote:

>> I like these skates a lot, planning to make slight variations.
>>
>> http://www.flickr.com/photos/27532210@N04/2565924423/
>>
>> The aluminum flat bar is 1/16" thick from McMaster. Seems
>> springier than Lowe's aluminum and apparently harder so it
>> doesn't clog my tools.

> Looking at the picture I would toss the aluminum your using. Get
> some wider material and make a longer piece that can go along the
> sides of the current frame and catch at least one of the existing
> wheel bolts. Maybe even use sheet stock and bend it so that it can
> use the toe area on the shoe as a brace.

Yup yup, good thoughts IMO.

> Then on the nose area that you have one screw I would add a
> second. One closer to the top and bottom to spread the clamping
> across the part. That would give you three total hard connection
> points. Screw wise I would use stainless 10-32 and short rivnuts.
>
>
> I would toss the Super Glue. Get some GOOD epoxy and use that.

Like what, specifically?

> With
> the understanding that the failures you will likely see at the
> bonded areas will likely be from aluminum oxide forming under the
> glue.
>
> Or you could just go buy a pair of the inlines that are sold for
> off road use.
> http://1800wwsports.stores.yahoo.net/rolcoyoffroa.html
> Rollerblade Coyote

I'm very familiar with those and other off-road in-line skates. The
Coyotes were a chore to push with, the pneumatic wheels made them
very slow for anything but going downhill. There are others, but
nothing that resembles the function of mine for rough street
skating. I've used 100mm wheel speed skates. Mine are for speed
(hard wheels), stability (low profile), and handling bumps (big
front wheel). I'm still working on putting a stopgap between at
least the first and second wheels, that's what my earlier question
about Delrin was for.

Problem with the stopgap is that it needs to absorb shock without
moving into the wheels. That's a really tough qualification. I think
it's going to be a breakaway type, so that if I hit an extremely hard
object with lots of force, it will absorb some of the shock by
shattering, then it will be replaced. It would need to be replaced
periodically anyway.






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