old techniques still in use?

While reading one of the Lindsay reprint books about machining
techniques of 1894, I was struck by the amount of coverage given
to bench or vise work techniques.
Complete Practical Machinist by Rose ISBN 1-55918-246-6
http://www.lindsaybks.com/
(seems to be out of print at lindsay's)
http://www.directtextbook.com/prices/1933998091

I know that hand-scraping is still used on some of the most
precision machines, but what about "chipping" or chiseling? Is
this still used in any shops, or has the cheap end-mill
eliminated this entirely? How about "blind" oil groves in
babbitt bearings?

Any of the cnc shops putting the finishing touches to a
replacement part for a customer's obsolete machine with a cape
chisel?

Filing seems to be stressed in some of the European apprentice
machinest programs. Is "chipping" also covered?

Unka' George [George McDuffee]
-------------------------------------------
He that will not apply new remedies,
must expect new evils:
for Time is the greatest innovator: and
if Time, of course, alter things to the worse,
and wisdom and counsel shall not alter them to the better,
what shall be the end?

Francis Bacon (1561-1626), English philosopher, essayist, statesman.
Essays, "Of Innovations" (1597-1625).

Posted by on April 29, 2008, 9:28 pm

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On Apr 29, 8:59=A0pm, F. George McDuffee <gmcduf...@mcduffee-
associates.us> wrote:

>
> Filing seems to be stressed in some of the European apprentice
> machinest programs. =A0Is "chipping" also covered?

I had to use a chisel during my European apprenticeship. The idea of
the chisel actually illustrates the basic cutting tool really well.
Force vectors, cutting forces, edge strength, etc.

I've found that I'm ultimately happy to have some experience with a
chisel. When you really need a chisel, most other techniques are
fairly impractical. Mind you, this applies to fairly specific work
(troubleshooting mostly), so I'm not sure a production shop machinist
would be very interested.

We only had to chisel out segments of thin plate (too small to use a
drill/hacksaw combo). As I understand it, the millwright Meister exam
requires the production of a shaft keyway using only a chisel!

I've mentioned it before, but you can use scraping techniques with a
well dressed die grinder stone instead of a chisel for flattening a
block. Useful when the block has but one planar surface. I'd say this
is an "old" technique.

Speaking of the "old" way, I can't say I've ever used my experience in
riveting for any serious application. About the only thing that work
taught me was to not use rivets! What a pain.

I suppose it's a good education in the importance of balance and
attention to detail in press work. If you start a rivet incorrectly,
you're making life *very* tough/impossible later on in the process.
Interesting education in cold-forming.

Regards,

Robin

Posted by over a barrel on April 30, 2008, 12:36 am

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Appreciate knock it off with continuing the crossposting to AMC anytime
where it occurs the fuckwit mcduffee happens to be involved.

On Apr 29, 8:59 pm, F. George McDuffee <gmcduf...@mcduffee-
associates.us> wrote:

>
> Filing seems to be stressed in some of the European apprentice
> machinest programs. Is "chipping" also covered?

<snipped, plonked >

--

Posted by Bruce in Bangkok on April 29, 2008, 9:53 pm

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On Tue, 29 Apr 2008 19:59:36 -0500, F. George McDuffee

>While reading one of the Lindsay reprint books about machining
>techniques of 1894, I was struck by the amount of coverage given
>to bench or vise work techniques.
>Complete Practical Machinist by Rose ISBN 1-55918-246-6
>http://www.lindsaybks.com/
>(seems to be out of print at lindsay's)
>http://www.directtextbook.com/prices/1933998091
>
>I know that hand-scraping is still used on some of the most
>precision machines, but what about "chipping" or chiseling? Is
>this still used in any shops, or has the cheap end-mill
>eliminated this entirely? How about "blind" oil groves in
>babbitt bearings?
>
>Any of the cnc shops putting the finishing touches to a
>replacement part for a customer's obsolete machine with a cape
>chisel?
>
>Filing seems to be stressed in some of the European apprentice
>machinest programs. Is "chipping" also covered?
>
>
>Unka' George [George McDuffee]
>-------------------------------------------

A lot of the skills went away when various processes vanished. Why
learn to cut a keyway with a cape chisel in the middle of a 50 foot
shaft when they took all the overhead shafts out of the plant and
replaced them with individual motors.

Do they use babbeted bearings any more? Do people still pour them?

I did once get many brownie points by being able to re-scrape a 4 inch
bronze bearing on an old surface grinder but most of the old skills
just aren't needed any more.

Hard to find a wheelwright to tighten up your buggy wheels or a good
buggy whip maker these days and for quite a while a farrier was damned
near impossible to locate - although I hear that trade is making a
modest comeback. Looks like gunsmithing is also a dying trade too.

Bruce-in-Bangkok
(correct Address is bpaige125atgmaildotcom)

Posted by Gunner on April 30, 2008, 7:01 am

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On Wed, 30 Apr 2008 08:53:01 +0700, Bruce in Bangkok

>
>Hard to find a wheelwright to tighten up your buggy wheels or a good
>buggy whip maker these days and for quite a while a farrier was damned
>near impossible to locate - although I hear that trade is making a
>modest comeback. Looks like gunsmithing is also a dying trade too.

Most whip makers are now chinese and they cater largely to the
Western S&M trade, though there are still quite a number of US
craftspeople still making them for both legit and S&M trade

Farriers are indeed making a comeback, as there are more horses in the
US today, than at any time in its history.

Course most are riding stock, not working stock...not many plow horses
or milk wagons...

Gunsmithing is indeed a dying art. They have two issues..governmental
regulation that is worthless but a huge hinderance and have added huge
costs, and gunsmiths have largely priced themselves out of the market
for many people.

Thats the reason I first learned machining, because I wanted custom
stuff, or to repair stuff, but couldnt afford the prices most smiths
were charging even then. I do nearly all my own gunsmithing, and
let/teach friends who come over to my home shop to do repairs/mods of
their own.

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