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Posted by Ted Frater on April 29, 2008, 10:15 pm
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F. George McDuffee wrote:
> While reading one of the Lindsay reprint books about machining
> techniques of 1894, I was struck by the amount of coverage given
> to bench or vise work techniques.
> Complete Practical Machinist by Rose ISBN 1-55918-246-6
> http://www.lindsaybks.com/
> (seems to be out of print at lindsay's)
> http://www.directtextbook.com/prices/1933998091
>
> I know that hand-scraping is still used on some of the most
> precision machines, but what about "chipping" or chiseling? Is
> this still used in any shops, or has the cheap end-mill
> eliminated this entirely? How about "blind" oil groves in
> babbitt bearings?
>
> Any of the cnc shops putting the finishing touches to a
> replacement part for a customer's obsolete machine with a cape
> chisel?
>
> Filing seems to be stressed in some of the European apprentice
> machinest programs. Is "chipping" also covered?
>
>
> Unka' George [George McDuffee]
> -------------------------------------------
> He that will not apply new remedies,
> must expect new evils:
> for Time is the greatest innovator: and
> if Time, of course, alter things to the worse,
> and wisdom and counsel shall not alter them to the better,
> what shall be the end?
>
> Francis Bacon (1561-1626), English philosopher, essayist, statesman.
> Essays, "Of Innovations" (1597-1625).
My take on these hand techniques is that the purpose of a modern cnc
shop is to eliminate hand work as much as possible in the interests of
speed, accuracy and pruduction volumes..
However in the wood working trades and stone masons work chiseling is
still an important skill.
Now for other metalworking skills like in silver or gold smithing hand
techniques are still taught including chiseling. For example removing
flases from small castings , its much quicker to chisel them off than
setting them up in a mill As many flashes are of different sizes..
also filing is used extensively in the jewellery trade.
Also a modern cnc shop would most probably decline the repair/ remaking
of an obsolete part for an old machine as they wouldnt have the old
tools left any more.
In several cnc shops I put work to they dont have a general center
lathe anymore.
Iknow of a few general machine shops that can turn their hand to almost
anything , but there few and far between now.
Generally a one man type shop who can turn his hand to almost any one
off job.
Youll find threm in rural areas repairing farm machinery and the like.
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Posted by Ecnerwal on April 29, 2008, 10:35 pm
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> My take on these hand techniques is that the purpose of a modern cnc
> shop is to eliminate hand work as much as possible in the interests of
> speed, accuracy and pruduction volumes..
Useful for repairs, kludges, and one-off's, however.
I don't rivet much, but I was able to apply the techniques learned from
hanging out with a darned good plate armor armorer who rivets a lot
(it's historically correct) to repair my backhoe by replacing a
swing-chain pin with an appropriate sized hunk of grade-8 bolt, and
peening it in place with a small ball peen hammer, a moderate anvil, and
45 minutes of tap, tap, tap.
Given than it's $300 just to get the thing hauled off for someone else
to even start looking at it, much less the cost of them fixing it with
replacement parts as opposed to rebuilding parts, it's a worthwhile
skill to lurk in the skillset, when needed.
Likewise, it's clear that sometimes the ability to cut a keyway with a
chisel would get the (one-off, repair or modification) job done faster
and with less specialized and costly tools. Have to give it a try when
I've got some spare time.
--
Cats, coffee, chocolate...vices to live by
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Posted by Jon Anderson on April 30, 2008, 7:28 pm
Please log in for more thread options Ecnerwal wrote:
> Likewise, it's clear that sometimes the ability to cut a keyway with a
> chisel would get the (one-off, repair or modification) job done faster
> and with less specialized and costly tools. Have to give it a try when
> I've got some spare time.
20+ years ago, I happened upon a pistol scope at a very good
price at a yard sale. Wanted to try it out, but had no
mount, none available in town, and I had nothing more
sophisticated than a drill press at the time.
I carved one out with a hacksaw, files, and used a wood
chisel to cut the dovetail. It was not a thing of beauty,
but an hour after I started, I was out in the woods testing
my scope. (which turned out to be a piece of crap... LOL)
Jon
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Posted by Gunner on April 30, 2008, 8:52 am
Please log in for more thread options wrote:
>> Francis Bacon (1561-1626), English philosopher, essayist, statesman.
>> Essays, "Of Innovations" (1597-1625).
>
>My take on these hand techniques is that the purpose of a modern cnc
>shop is to eliminate hand work as much as possible in the interests of
>speed, accuracy and pruduction volumes..
> However in the wood working trades and stone masons work chiseling is
>still an important skill.
> Now for other metalworking skills like in silver or gold smithing hand
>techniques are still taught including chiseling. For example removing
>flases from small castings , its much quicker to chisel them off than
>setting them up in a mill As many flashes are of different sizes..
> also filing is used extensively in the jewellery trade.
>Also a modern cnc shop would most probably decline the repair/ remaking
>of an obsolete part for an old machine as they wouldnt have the old
>tools left any more.
> In several cnc shops I put work to they dont have a general center
>lathe anymore.
>Iknow of a few general machine shops that can turn their hand to almost
>anything , but there few and far between now.
> Generally a one man type shop who can turn his hand to almost any one
>off job.
>Youll find threm in rural areas repairing farm machinery and the like.
As a service tech, its damned surprising how few shops have even a
bench vise, drill press or much in the way of hand tools. Few have a
manual mill or lathe either.
Been a number of times Ive had to clamp something in a CNC mill vise
and cut it off with a hacksaw...which is an extremely odd concept if
you think about it.....
Gunner
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Posted by Wes on April 30, 2008, 5:06 pm
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>Been a number of times Ive had to clamp something in a CNC mill vise
>and cut it off with a hacksaw...which is an extremely odd concept if
>you think about it.....
Gee, seems normal to me. ;)
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> techniques of 1894, I was struck by the amount of coverage given
> to bench or vise work techniques.
> Complete Practical Machinist by Rose ISBN 1-55918-246-6
> http://www.lindsaybks.com/
> (seems to be out of print at lindsay's)
> http://www.directtextbook.com/prices/1933998091
>
> I know that hand-scraping is still used on some of the most
> precision machines, but what about "chipping" or chiseling? Is
> this still used in any shops, or has the cheap end-mill
> eliminated this entirely? How about "blind" oil groves in
> babbitt bearings?
>
> Any of the cnc shops putting the finishing touches to a
> replacement part for a customer's obsolete machine with a cape
> chisel?
>
> Filing seems to be stressed in some of the European apprentice
> machinest programs. Is "chipping" also covered?
>
>
> Unka' George [George McDuffee]
> -------------------------------------------
> He that will not apply new remedies,
> must expect new evils:
> for Time is the greatest innovator: and
> if Time, of course, alter things to the worse,
> and wisdom and counsel shall not alter them to the better,
> what shall be the end?
>
> Francis Bacon (1561-1626), English philosopher, essayist, statesman.
> Essays, "Of Innovations" (1597-1625).