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General Metalworking - All aspects of working with metal.
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Posted by William Wixon on April 11, 2006, 12:06 am
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FINALLY got the redrive "done". i felt quite proud of it (though it
took an embarrassingly long time to do). still have to do the electrical
wiring to the motor (drum switch, 220 volt, etc.) "fired it up" today.
thank GOD it worked ok first time!
my crazy project. there's no way this lathe could be worth the time,
energy, money i've put into it so far. still haven't cut anything with it
yet.
thanks to those who've offered advice/assistance.
b.w.
www.frontiernet.net/~wwixon/redrive1.jpg 59kb
www.frontiernet.net/~wwixon/redrive2.jpg 45kb
www.frontiernet.net/~wwixon/redrive3.jpg 54kb
www.frontiernet.net/~wwixon/redrive4.jpg 613kb
www.frontiernet.net/~wwixon/redrive5.jpg 130kb
www.frontiernet.net/~wwixon/redrive6.jpg 130kb
www.frontiernet.net/~wwixon/redrive7.jpg 611kb
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Posted by Adam Smith on April 11, 2006, 12:03 pm
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Extremely cool!
Congrats on nice work! Especially the part about it working first time!
> FINALLY got the redrive "done". i felt quite proud of it (though it
> took an embarrassingly long time to do). still have to do the electrical
> wiring to the motor (drum switch, 220 volt, etc.) "fired it up" today.
> thank GOD it worked ok first time!
<snip>
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Posted by DoN. Nichols on April 13, 2006, 1:50 am
Please log in for more thread options > thanks for your replies, replies to everyone below...
> >
> > Those look nice. Are you now tempted to refinish the rest of
> > the machine?
> >
> > Did you build the entire motor support, or is this just a
> > refurbishment of the original motor and layshaft supports?
[ ... ]
> hi don,
> i like the rustic look of the rest of the machine, don't wanna disturb the
> patina. :-)
> heck yeah i built the entire thang from scratch. whew! that was a workout.
> (thought you and others would remember the way the "ugly" (my words)
> original was.)
I sort of remember it -- but not the details.
> here's the pic of the original... waddaya call it...? "motor and layshaft
> supports"?
>
> http://www.frontiernet.net/~wwixon/lathe6a.jpg
>
> (all i intend to re-use is the step pulley and the barrel switch) (and some
> of the steel bar stock)
O.K.
> that's pretty amazing you were able to glean all that info from my pics. i
> didn't know that information was encoded in them. how'd you do that!?
There are a bunch of programs which do varying degrees of
recovering the "exif" information from image files. The program which I
currently use is a perl program called "exiftool".
> jeez, i almost felt violated. funny you know the make and model of my
> camera, if someone were to ask me i'd have to tell them i don't know/can't
> remember!
There are something like sixty lines of information which your
camera puts into the file, including the maker and model name.
However -- if you have run the photo through some program which
modifies the image, the new file will not have that information encoded
in it -- unless you jump through hoops to preserve it.
I thought to run the image through exiftool to see what camera
took the shots, since:
1) The image name was a typical camera image name, so there was
a chance that it was the raw image from the camera.
2) The size was large enough so the odds were also that it was
the unmodified image from the camera.
If you want to keep from making this information available to
the world, load into a program and re-save it to a new filename -- even
if you don't do anything to the image, and that will strip off the exif
info.
My Nikon D70 (A SLR which uses the lenses from the old film
cameras) even encodes in there the orientation of the camera (normal,
tilted 90 degrees to the left, tilted 90 degrees to the right, or
(possibly) inverted. This is so programs which are displaying the
images can automatically rotate them to the proper position on your
screen.
And one of the things that the D70 will do is to encode a short
text string in there. I use it for an attempt at a copyright claim in
the images.
> here's a picture that i thought was funny. is this one 1/18 of a second
> also?
I can't tell on this one. You used some program to perhaps crop
the image, and all that exif tool says about it is the following:
======================================================================
ExifTool Version Number : 5.05
File Name : redrive8.jpg
File Size : 49KB
File Type : JPEG
Image Width : 433
Image Height : 639
Image Size : 433x639
======================================================================
> (it's turning/running) (used the flash) (it even stopped the pulley
> on the motor!)
Flash, combined with slow shutter speeds can give a nice effect.
There are modes on the Nikon to select to do this on purpose.
> http://www.frontiernet.net/~wwixon/redrive8.jpg
>
> thanks for the compliment.
You're welcome. It was a nice job. I wish that I could weld
and make things that look like that.
> >
> > Watch out. This lathe has NO lockout to prevent you from engaging
> > the half nuts and the longitudinal feed at the same time. If you
> > do this you *will* blow something up in the leadscrew drivetrain.
[ ... ]
> yeah Jim, thanks, i remember you said that. sorry i didn't send you a thank
> you directly, i went to try to find your address in the replies i got to my
> original post and got distracted and forgot. thanks for making the pics of
> your star lathe available to me. now the only thing is for me to figure out
> what a half nut and a longitudinal feed is. :-) i'm kidding, i do believe
> i know what the half nut is by taking apart the saddle and i assume the
> longitudinal feed is what makes the tool holder move toward and away from
> the operator...
Actually -- no. The longitudinal feed is in the same direction
that the half-nuts move the carriage -- but much slower, giving finer
feed (and a nicer finish), and reducing wear on the leadscrew to save it
purely for threading.
What you have described is called the cross-feed, which is
usually present on a lathe which also has the longitudinal feed.
Typically, there is a lever or clutch which will engage either, and
select either. I've seen lathes with two clutch levers, one for
longitudinal and one for cross feed, allowing them both to be engaged at
the same time, to cut a nice 60 degree taper. My Clausing has no
clutch, just gears, and the lever slides in a z-shaped slot, so to the
right and up is longitudinal feed, and to the left and down is
cross-feed. But this machine *does* have an interlock so you can't
engage the half nuts when either fine feed is in use, and you can't
engage either fine feed when the half-nuts are in use, thus avoiding the
calamity which Jim described.
> but i am still completely unsure how to activate them and
> am afraid to blow it up.
Half nuts are typically engaged by moving a lever to the right
side of the apron to a down position, at which point the carriage will
move fairly fast (depending on the threading gearing).
I would have to look at the photos of the apron of your lathe to
see what controls you have which engage longitudinal and cross feeds.
Sometimes, there is a star wheel which allows you to gradually engage
the clutch, and allows it to slip if necessary.
Identify the half-nut lever and the handwheel which moves the
carriage. Everything else is most likely longitudinal and cross feed.
And as long as you don't have the half-nuts engaged, you can play with
the others with no problems (as long as you stop them before the
carriage reaches the chuck or the tailstock. :-)
> today i was figuring i'm going to need to get a
> copy of that south bend "how to operate a lathe" book. hope that'll tell
> me.
It will tell you how South Bend lathes do this. They are
somewhat different from my Clausing, and yet again different from a
Sheldon ...
> usually i fiddle around with a thing to figure out how to use it but in
> this case it seems i can actually cause real damage by fiddling around with
> it to figure out how it works and so am afraid to do so. somehow the
> controls on the saddle do not make sense. it seems as if if i move a lever
> or turn a knob it causes the other knobs/handles to do something else and if
> i switch them around they do something completely different, not getting
> repeatable results.
Interesting. Disengage the feed to the leadscrew (the reversing
lever on the headstock should have a neutral position), and then you can
play with the controls without damaging anything -- but also without it
doing anything useful.
> oh, and one more thing, the handle that slides/moves
> the saddle along the ways, it's very stiff and tight, not at ALL smooth.
The handwheel? This may imply that you have a longitudinal feed
lever engaged with the clutch set to allow you to override it by enough
hand force.
> i'm assuming i'm going to have to take it apart and put in some shims
> somewhere, haven't gotten to that yet. thanks again for the important tip!
> (the gears inside the saddle have already been chipped/"exploded" but
> there's enough teeth left on each one that it can operate ok.)
Are you sure? This may be why you are having strange behavior.
Good Luck,
DoN.
--
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---
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Posted by William Wixon on April 13, 2006, 9:27 pm
Please log in for more thread options hey don,
thanks for your detailed response. my responses/further questions
below...
took a photo of the "saddle"/"carriage" and uploaded it...
http://www.frontiernet.net/~wwixon/handles.jpg
>
>
-snip-
>
> You're welcome. It was a nice job. I wish that I could weld
> and make things that look like that.
thanks again :-)
-snip-
>
> Actually -- no. The longitudinal feed is in the same direction
> that the half-nuts move the carriage -- but much slower, giving finer
> feed (and a nicer finish), and reducing wear on the leadscrew to save it
> purely for threading.
wow, i REALLY don't understand that. i've used a lathe before but just
don't konw what the parts are called. the lathe i used (and this lathe) i
can move the tool holder/"saddle" side to side along teh ways with the
handle "1" (rapidly and imprecicely) or move the tool holder/"saddle" slowly
(but precicely) with teh long screw under the ways (assuming that's called
the lead screw). are you saying the handle that moves teh saddle rapidly
but imprecicely is called the longitudinal feed? when the half nuts are
engaged (they're engaged onto the lead screw) it moves the carriage slowly.
i don't get what you're saying at all.
>
> What you have described is called the cross-feed, which is
> usually present on a lathe which also has the longitudinal feed.
thanks. "cross feed"
> Typically, there is a lever or clutch which will engage either, and
> select either. I've seen lathes with two clutch levers, one for
i think maybe knob "2" is a clutch.
> longitudinal and one for cross feed, allowing them both to be engaged at
> the same time, to cut a nice 60 degree taper. My Clausing has no
> clutch, just gears, and the lever slides in a z-shaped slot, so to the
> right and up is longitudinal feed, and to the left and down is
> cross-feed. But this machine *does* have an interlock so you can't
> engage the half nuts when either fine feed is in use, and you can't
> engage either fine feed when the half-nuts are in use, thus avoiding the
> calamity which Jim described.
>
>
> Half nuts are typically engaged by moving a lever to the right
> side of the apron to a down position, at which point the carriage will
> move fairly fast (depending on the threading gearing).
there is a replacement part made of aluminum "4" that engages the half nut
(or what appears to me to be a nut sliced in half, so i figure that must be
a half nut) (this replacement part, i was impressed by whoever made it,
seemed like a somewhat complicated piece of mill work.) i'm a little
worried though, seems to me that it weighs enough/is loose enough that it
can flop down and engage itself. i'm trying to figure out a way to hook up
a spring or bungee or something to prevent it from flopping down and
engaging the half nut "without my permission".
>
> I would have to look at the photos of the apron of your lathe to
> see what controls you have which engage longitudinal and cross feeds.
thanks for helping me with this! (!!!) (like i said before, i usually just
fiddle around with a thing to figure it out on my own, i enjoy doing it that
way, but in this case there seems to be the possibility that i can cause
real irreparible (no replacement parts available) damage if i fuck something
up here.)
> Sometimes, there is a star wheel which allows you to gradually engage
> the clutch, and allows it to slip if necessary.
could the star wheel be "2"?
>
> Identify the half-nut lever and the handwheel which moves the
i got the half nut lever and the carriage hand wheel... and have been
fiddling with them, but am afraid to advance any furhter. (and as i
mentioned, the carraige hand wheel is VERY stiff, jerky, rough.)
> carriage. Everything else is most likely longitudinal and cross feed.
> And as long as you don't have the half-nuts engaged, you can play with
> the others with no problems (as long as you stop them before the
> carriage reaches the chuck or the tailstock. :-)
last night i tried engaging the lead screw and moving the carriage left to
right under power, which was fun. moved surprisingly slowly. then i
changed the direction of the leadscrew (with teh handle on the headstock)
and it seemed like the motion was rough, maybe as if something was being
FORCED, didn't like that and so stopped doing it. seemed as if the gears in
the headstock, when they were configured to move the opposite way, didn't
like it at all.
>
>
> It will tell you how South Bend lathes do this. They are
> somewhat different from my Clausing, and yet again different from a
> Sheldon ...
thanks.
>
>
> Interesting. Disengage the feed to the leadscrew (the reversing
> lever on the headstock should have a neutral position), and then you can
i've had the lever in the neutral position, afraid to engage the lead screw
drive.
> play with the controls without damaging anything -- but also without it
> doing anything useful.
<chuckle> (i went to art school, this project has been for me at least
partially a creative expression/outlet, hope though this lathe won't end up
being entirely a kinetic sculpture.)
>
>
> The handwheel? This may imply that you have a longitudinal feed
i wouldn't have thought it would be called a handwheel. what in the heck is
it called now, the word excapes me now, not a lever, not a knob, "handle",
what's it called? do they refer to this thing as a handwheel even though
there's no "wheel" component to it? "crank"?
> lever engaged with the clutch set to allow you to override it by enough
oh! is the longitudinal feel lever the thing on the headstock that makes
the lead screw rotate?!
> hand force.
>
>
> Are you sure? This may be why you are having strange behavior.
it seemed as if there were enough of a tooth remaining on each of the broken
teeth to uninterruptedly engage the mating gear.
>
> Good Luck,
> DoN.
>
in my photo...
http://www.frontiernet.net/~wwixon/handles.jpg
"1" moves the carriage from left to right/right to left. (is very stiff
and jerky. i think the pinion gear might need to be shimmed or something, i
think maybe it's too tightly crammed up into the "rack" gear under the
bed/ways. is that what they're called, "rack and pinion"?)
"2" seems to be a clutch that makes "6" turn but i think it also makes "1"
turn too, not sure what "2" does. screw it in, tightens up and engages
something inside, turn it the opposite way and loosens, disengages whatever
it was it engaged.
"3" flops up and down from position "a." to position "b.", tighten the knob
to make it stay at either position. (i'm very confused as to what this
handle does.)
"4" engages/disengages the, i assume, "half nut".
"5" what do you guys call that one? transverse feed?
"6" moves the tool holder toward or away from the operator. this handle
will rotate under power of the lathe.
whew! thanks.
b.w.
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Posted by DoN. Nichols on April 11, 2006, 6:12 pm
Please log in for more thread options > FINALLY got the redrive "done". i felt quite proud of it (though it
> took an embarrassingly long time to do). still have to do the electrical
> wiring to the motor (drum switch, 220 volt, etc.) "fired it up" today.
> thank GOD it worked ok first time!
> my crazy project. there's no way this lathe could be worth the time,
> energy, money i've put into it so far. still haven't cut anything with it
> yet.
> thanks to those who've offered advice/assistance.
>
> b.w.
>
> www.frontiernet.net/~wwixon/redrive1.jpg 59kb
[ ... ]
> www.frontiernet.net/~wwixon/redrive7.jpg 611kb
Those look nice. Are you now tempted to refinish the rest of
the machine?
Did you build the entire motor support, or is this just a
refurbishment of the original motor and layshaft supports?
I see that the last shot was taken at 1/18th of a second, which
explains why the spokes of the large pulley are not visible.
And I also see that you used a Fuji FinePix1300 to take the
shots.
And -- the last shot was taken at 2006:04:10 16:24:05 according
to the camera's clock.
Enjoy,
DoN.
--
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---
430 No such article
> FINALLY got the redrive "done". i felt quite proud of it (though it
> took an embarrassingly long time to do). still have to do the electrical
> wiring to the motor (drum switch, 220 volt, etc.) "fired it up" today.
> thank GOD it worked ok first time!
> my crazy project. there's no way this lathe could be worth the time,
> energy, money i've put into it so far. still haven't cut anything with it
> yet.
> thanks to those who've offered advice/assistance.
>
> b.w.
>
> www.frontiernet.net/~wwixon/redrive1.jpg 59kb
[ ... ]
> www.frontiernet.net/~wwixon/redrive7.jpg 611kb
Those look nice. Are you now tempted to refinish the rest of
the machine?
Did you build the entire motor support, or is this just a
refurbishment of the original motor and layshaft supports?
I see that the last shot was taken at 1/18th of a second, which
explains why the spokes of the large pulley are not visible.
And I also see that you used a Fuji FinePix1300 to take the
shots.
And -- the last shot was taken at 2006:04:10 16:24:05 according
to the camera's clock.
Enjoy,
DoN.
--
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---
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> took an embarrassingly long time to do). still have to do the electrical
> wiring to the motor (drum switch, 220 volt, etc.) "fired it up" today.
> thank GOD it worked ok first time!