240v 3 phase in 415v 3 phase motor

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Subject Author Date
240v 3 phase in 415v 3 phase motor dm 04-17-2008
Posted by Bob Minchin on April 18, 2008, 4:03 pm
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dm wrote:
>>
>>> Thanks
>>> Alas these motors are permanent star -
>>> Re butchering a permanent star to a delta
>>> Since delta uses more current would the windings necessarily take the
> extra
>>> current if I "hacked" it to a delta?
>>>
>>> Derek
>>>
>> The extra current comes because the windings are effectively in parallel
>> rather than in series. Same current and voltage for the windings but
>> SQRT 3 times the voltage and
>> 1/SQRT 3 times the current
>> for the whole motor.
>>
>>
>> Mark Rand
>> RTFM
> of the 4 motors on the mill
> one is dual voltage already (suds) one I have a cheap replacement (vertical)
> ,
> one is overspec and i'm not in rush for (horizontal arbour). The crucial one
> is the horizontal feed. for this I have found the star point and it "seems"
> straight forward to connect up as delta. Is there a way to get the physical
> orientation out of kilter with the electrical topology or will it all come
> out in the direction of rotation?
>
>
Not a problem. If the rotation direction is incorrect swap any two
supply wires over.

Bob

Posted by Mark Rand on April 18, 2008, 5:25 pm
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>dm wrote:
>>>
>>>> Thanks
>>>> Alas these motors are permanent star -
>>>> Re butchering a permanent star to a delta
>>>> Since delta uses more current would the windings necessarily take the
>> extra
>>>> current if I "hacked" it to a delta?
>>>>
>>>> Derek
>>>>
>>> The extra current comes because the windings are effectively in parallel
>>> rather than in series. Same current and voltage for the windings but
>>> SQRT 3 times the voltage and
>>> 1/SQRT 3 times the current
>>> for the whole motor.
>>>
>>>
>>> Mark Rand
>>> RTFM
>> of the 4 motors on the mill
>> one is dual voltage already (suds) one I have a cheap replacement (vertical)
>> ,
>> one is overspec and i'm not in rush for (horizontal arbour). The crucial one
>> is the horizontal feed. for this I have found the star point and it "seems"
>> straight forward to connect up as delta. Is there a way to get the physical
>> orientation out of kilter with the electrical topology or will it all come
>> out in the direction of rotation?
>>
>>
>Not a problem. If the rotation direction is incorrect swap any two
>supply wires over.
>
>Bob


Quick rewind on that to avoid unnecessary release of magic smoke...

Mark the junction box ends of the windings A1,B1, C1

Using a meter, battery and bell, electric fencer and small child etc:-
Mark the corresponding opposite (ex-starpoint) ends of the windings A2, B2, C2

Now connect
A2-B1
B2-C1
C2-A1


If you accidentally connected a winding the wrong way round (say A2-B2, B1-C1)
then the motor will draw a lot of current, generate little torque and get
rather warm.

Mark Rand
RTFM

Posted by Bob Minchin on April 19, 2008, 8:27 am
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Mark Rand wrote:
>
>> dm wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Thanks
>>>>> Alas these motors are permanent star -
>>>>> Re butchering a permanent star to a delta
>>>>> Since delta uses more current would the windings necessarily take the
>>> extra
>>>>> current if I "hacked" it to a delta?
>>>>>
>>>>> Derek
>>>>>
>>>> The extra current comes because the windings are effectively in parallel
>>>> rather than in series. Same current and voltage for the windings but
>>>> SQRT 3 times the voltage and
>>>> 1/SQRT 3 times the current
>>>> for the whole motor.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Mark Rand
>>>> RTFM
>>> of the 4 motors on the mill
>>> one is dual voltage already (suds) one I have a cheap replacement (vertical)
>>> ,
>>> one is overspec and i'm not in rush for (horizontal arbour). The crucial one
>>> is the horizontal feed. for this I have found the star point and it "seems"
>>> straight forward to connect up as delta. Is there a way to get the physical
>>> orientation out of kilter with the electrical topology or will it all come
>>> out in the direction of rotation?
>>>
>>>
>> Not a problem. If the rotation direction is incorrect swap any two
>> supply wires over.
>>
>> Bob
>
>
> Quick rewind on that to avoid unnecessary release of magic smoke...
>
> Mark the junction box ends of the windings A1,B1, C1
>
> Using a meter, battery and bell, electric fencer and small child etc:-
> Mark the corresponding opposite (ex-starpoint) ends of the windings A2, B2, C2
>
> Now connect
> A2-B1
> B2-C1
> C2-A1
>
>
> If you accidentally connected a winding the wrong way round (say A2-B2, B1-C1)
> then the motor will draw a lot of current, generate little torque and get
> rather warm.
>
> Mark Rand
> RTFM
Yes I agree. I had assumed that the Op would have done that check. _
Always dangerous to assume!
Thanks for the addendum Mark.
Bob

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