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Posted by Emimec on October 25, 2008, 3:32 pm
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At a recent factory auction, the auctioneer stopped the sale of a second
press brake and really verbally laid into one of the bidders, saying he was
"auction ringing" and then refused to continue with the sale and removed the
item for the auction. It sounded as though he knew the bidder, as he really
gave him a dressing down, explaining his disappointment of the bidders
actions.
Now, the question is what is auction ringing?
The previous press brake was sold to the bidder referred to above, or his
mate, I'm not sure. I could understand 2 guys working together to up a bid
price, then pull out when an unsuspecting bidder joined in, but the scenario
here seems to be 2 guys working together to keep the price down ?
Answers on a postcard please !!!
Bob
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Posted by Kevin Poole on October 25, 2008, 4:03 pm
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Emimec wrote:
<snip>
>
> Now, the question is what is auction ringing?
>
A small group of bidders, who ordinarily might be expected to bid
against each other, decide in advance that only one of them will bid on
a particular item. It might therefore sell for less than it would
otherwise have done. The group then have a second auction among
themselves, usually in the car park. The winner pays up whatever he bid
in the second auction, but the difference between (proper auction bid
price plus commission) and this private bid price is then divvied up
between the members of the "ring".
The seller loses out because the item sells for less than it's worth,
and the auctioneer loses out on seller's and buyer's commission.
Admission to these rings is very much by invitation, and you don't make
yourself at all popular if you're invited to join in, but decline. If
they then spot that you're bidding against the ring, they may even try
to run you up to a daft price, accepting the risk that they'll get the
item and make a loss in the second, private, auction, just to rub your
nose in it.
They're common in antique auctions.
--
Kevin Poole
****Use current date to reply (e.g. oct2008@mainbeam.co.uk)****
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Posted by Emimec on October 26, 2008, 1:45 pm
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>
>
> Emimec wrote:
> <snip>
>>
>> Now, the question is what is auction ringing?
>>
>
> A small group of bidders, who ordinarily might be expected to bid against
> each other, decide in advance that only one of them will bid on a
> particular item. It might therefore sell for less than it would otherwise
> have done. The group then have a second auction among themselves, usually
> in the car park. The winner pays up whatever he bid in the second
> auction, but the difference between (proper auction bid price plus
> commission) and this private bid price is then divvied up between the
> members of the "ring".
>
> The seller loses out because the item sells for less than it's worth, and
> the auctioneer loses out on seller's and buyer's commission. Admission to
> these rings is very much by invitation, and you don't make yourself at all
> popular if you're invited to join in, but decline. If they then spot that
> you're bidding against the ring, they may even try to run you up to a daft
> price, accepting the risk that they'll get the item and make a loss in the
> second, private, auction, just to rub your nose in it.
>
> They're common in antique auctions.
>
> --
> Kevin Poole
> ****Use current date to reply (e.g. oct2008@mainbeam.co.uk)****
Many thanks
I get it now
Bob
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Posted by mark@ems-fife.co.uk on October 27, 2008, 2:43 pm
Please log in for more thread options > Emimec wrote:
>
> <snip>
>
>
>
> > Now, the question is what is auction ringing?
>
> A small group of bidders, who ordinarily might be expected to bid
> against each other, decide in advance that only one of them will bid on
> a particular item. It might therefore sell for less than it would
> otherwise have done. The group then have a second auction among
> themselves, usually in the car park. The winner pays up whatever he bid
> in the second auction, but the difference between (proper auction bid
> price plus commission) and this private bid price is then divvied up
> between the members of the "ring".
>
> The seller loses out because the item sells for less than it's worth,
> and the auctioneer loses out on seller's and buyer's commission.
> Admission to these rings is very much by invitation, and you don't make
> yourself at all popular if you're invited to join in, but decline. If
> they then spot that you're bidding against the ring, they may even try
> to run you up to a daft price, accepting the risk that they'll get the
> item and make a loss in the second, private, auction, just to rub your
> nose in it.
>
> They're common in antique auctions.
>
> --
> Kevin Poole
> ****Use current date to reply (e.g. oct2...@mainbeam.co.uk)****
Used to be common at machinery auctions too.Bit unusual nowadays as
the old team have all gone or are at least my age.It`s illegal too,but
very hard to prove.Last ones I can remember was when the coal board
workshops and pithead machinery auctions were on in the eighties.After
the auctioneers had went home there was another auction in the yard
where all the stuff the ring had won was re-auctioned.
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Posted by Tony Jeffree on October 28, 2008, 4:12 pm
Please log in for more thread options On Sat, 25 Oct 2008 21:03:24 +0100, Kevin Poole
>
>
>Emimec wrote:
><snip>
>>
>> Now, the question is what is auction ringing?
>>
>
>A small group of bidders, who ordinarily might be expected to bid
>against each other, decide in advance that only one of them will bid on
>a particular item. It might therefore sell for less than it would
>otherwise have done. The group then have a second auction among
>themselves, usually in the car park. The winner pays up whatever he bid
>in the second auction, but the difference between (proper auction bid
>price plus commission) and this private bid price is then divvied up
>between the members of the "ring".
>
>The seller loses out because the item sells for less than it's worth,
>and the auctioneer loses out on seller's and buyer's commission.
>Admission to these rings is very much by invitation, and you don't make
>yourself at all popular if you're invited to join in, but decline. If
>they then spot that you're bidding against the ring, they may even try
>to run you up to a daft price, accepting the risk that they'll get the
>item and make a loss in the second, private, auction, just to rub your
>nose in it.
>
>They're common in antique auctions.
But presumably there would be nothing wrong with the "ring" nominating
one of their number to show up at the auction, do all of the bidding
for the stuff they have an interest in, transfer all the purchases to
some other venue, and then conduct a 2nd auction there? After all,
that is not a lot different from what dealers working on their own do
- buy stuff at an auction & then sell it on to other people in the
trade. So it isn't quite clear to me what the problem is here.
Regards,
Tony
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> Now, the question is what is auction ringing?
>