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Posted by Dudley Simons on March 6, 2008, 7:10 am
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Richard wrote:
> On Thu, 6 Mar 2008 01:55:59 -0800 (PST), Cheshire Steve
>
>> wrote:
>>> This site was discovered by a south African member
>>> on the Oldengine group. No one on the OE group has heard of this idea
>>> so I thought this was a suitable group to ask!
>>> Seehttp://www.greensteamengine.com/
>>> I look forward to your comments.
>>> --
>>> Dave Croft
>>>
Warringtonhttp://www.oldengine.org/members/croft/http://community.webshots.com/user/crftdv
>> Hi Dave
>>
>> I happen to have in front of me a Siemens engine design of about 1860
>> with the same layout (with 4 cylinders), the only difference is that
>> this one uses a bendy coupling, whereas the 1860 version used a rigid
>> coupling with a ball pivot in the centre. As far as I can see,
>> anything else claimed (and there is a lot) is either baloney or
>> irrelevant to the patent, which is just the bendy bit. Siemens was
>> trying to invent the IC engine, the drive system wasn't the novel part
>> of his design, it probably dates way back to the days when there was a
>> patent on the crankshaft.
>>
>> Steve
>
> This cropped up 6 months or maybe a year ago, I imagine his later
> development will be a Perpetual Motion Machine coupled to an anti
> gravity system for time travel.
>
> Curious perhaps it is, cheap, reliable, efficient or ecological etc it
> ain't.
>
> Richard
as a matter of interest - on what basis is it NOT cheap, reliable,
efficient or ecological?
Dudley
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Posted by Norman Billingham on March 6, 2008, 7:16 am
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<SNIP>
>
>
> as a matter of interest - on what basis is it NOT cheap, reliable,
> efficient or ecological?
>
>
> Dudley
Purely on the basis of Carnot's theorem - an engine running on low pressure
steam at low inlet temperture can never be more than a few percent efficient
given that the exhaust temperature has to be above 100C and the inlet
temperature is probably not a lot higher.
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Posted by dave sanderson on March 6, 2008, 7:49 am
Please log in for more thread options > wrote:
>
> > This site was discovered by a south African member
> > on the Oldengine group. No one on the OE group has heard of this idea
> > so I thought this was a suitable group to ask!
> > Seehttp://www.greensteamengine.com/
> > I look forward to your comments.
> > --
> > Dave Croft
> > Warringtonhttp://www.oldengine.org/members/croft/http://community.websho=
ts.com/...
>
> Hi Dave
>
> I happen to have in front of me a Siemens engine design of about 1860
> with the same layout (with 4 cylinders), the only difference is that
> this one uses a bendy coupling, whereas the 1860 version used a rigid
> coupling with a ball pivot in the centre. As far as I can see,
> anything else claimed (and there is a lot) is either baloney or
> irrelevant to the patent, which is just the bendy bit. Siemens was
> trying to invent the IC engine, the drive system wasn't the novel part
> of his design, it probably dates way back to the days when there was a
> patent on the crankshaft.
>
> Steve
Am I missing something, or is the bendy bit actually superfluous ?
And I cant see how having a spring being bent like that would
contribute
any return of energy.
Dave
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Posted by Cheshire Steve on March 6, 2008, 2:24 pm
Please log in for more thread options wrote:
>
>
>
> > wrote:
>
> > > This site was discovered by a south African member
> > > on the Oldengine group. No one on the OE group has heard of this idea
> > > so I thought this was a suitable group to ask!
> > > Seehttp://www.greensteamengine.com/
> > > I look forward to your comments.
> > > --
> > > Dave Croft
> > >
Warringtonhttp://www.oldengine.org/members/croft/http://community.webshots.com/...
>
> > Hi Dave
>
> > I happen to have in front of me a Siemens engine design of about 1860
> > with the same layout (with 4 cylinders), the only difference is that
> > this one uses a bendy coupling, whereas the 1860 version used a rigid
> > coupling with a ball pivot in the centre. As far as I can see,
> > anything else claimed (and there is a lot) is either baloney or
> > irrelevant to the patent, which is just the bendy bit. Siemens was
> > trying to invent the IC engine, the drive system wasn't the novel part
> > of his design, it probably dates way back to the days when there was a
> > patent on the crankshaft.
>
> > Steve
>
> Am I missing something, or is the bendy bit actually superfluous ?
> And I cant see how having a spring being bent like that would
> contribute
> any return of energy.
>
> Dave
You are right, the bendy bit returns no energy. The mechanism doesn't
have the friction that might arise in a ball swivel, but the main
thing is that it might just be novel enough to gain a patent, unless
you can show someone used a bendy rod before. To patent something it
doesn't have to be useful, just novel, and on your own web page you
can claim anything else you like.
You don't even need a patent, but some people will add one to the
other and think the patent backs up the misleading claims - which it
doesn't - it just applies to the bendy bit.
Max efficiency of a heat engine is temperature difference divided by
the higher temperature (and we are talking degrees absolute here).
Minor variations in friction within engines is tiny compared to that
fundamental limit.
Steve
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Posted by dave sanderson on March 6, 2008, 3:43 pm
Please log in for more thread options > wrote:
>
>
>
>
> > > wrote:
>
> > > > This site was discovered by a south African member
> > > > on the Oldengine group. No one on the OE group has heard of this idea
> > > > so I thought this was a suitable group to ask!
> > > > Seehttp://www.greensteamengine.com/
> > > > I look forward to your comments.
> > > > --
> > > > Dave Croft
> > > >
Warringtonhttp://www.oldengine.org/members/croft/http://community.webshots.com/...
>
> > > Hi Dave
>
> > > I happen to have in front of me a Siemens engine design of about 1860
> > > with the same layout (with 4 cylinders), the only difference is that
> > > this one uses a bendy coupling, whereas the 1860 version used a rigid
> > > coupling with a ball pivot in the centre. As far as I can see,
> > > anything else claimed (and there is a lot) is either baloney or
> > > irrelevant to the patent, which is just the bendy bit. Siemens was
> > > trying to invent the IC engine, the drive system wasn't the novel part
> > > of his design, it probably dates way back to the days when there was a
> > > patent on the crankshaft.
>
> > > Steve
>
> > Am I missing something, or is the bendy bit actually superfluous ?
> > And I cant see how having a spring being bent like that would
> > contribute
> > any return of energy.
>
> > Dave
>
> You are right, the bendy bit returns no energy. The mechanism doesn't
> have the friction that might arise in a ball swivel, but the main
> thing is that it might just be novel enough to gain a patent, unless
> you can show someone used a bendy rod before. To patent something it
> doesn't have to be useful, just novel, and on your own web page you
> can claim anything else you like.
>
> You don't even need a patent, but some people will add one to the
> other and think the patent backs up the misleading claims - which it
> doesn't - it just applies to the bendy bit.
>
> Max efficiency of a heat engine is temperature difference divided by
> the higher temperature (and we are talking degrees absolute here).
> Minor variations in friction within engines is tiny compared to that
> fundamental limit.
>
> Steve
Its amazing how much money people must have spare. Patents are
not cheap (Ive looked into it for something Im developing), and
whilst
using a spring might be 'novel' the engineer in me cringes at the
claims
on the website....
Ive not built a swashplate engine, but I cant see how you even need
the
'bendy bit' There must be a pivot / bearing in the flywheel, which has
to
take the thrust. And as for not needing 'crossheads' whats that bolted
to
the back of the cylinders?
Dave
(glass of wine in hand, grumpy old man hat firmly on!)
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