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Posted by on September 23, 2006, 7:45 pm
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mike.crossfield@virgin.net wrote:
> Thanks Keith, much appreciated. Good of you to carry out these tests.
>
> Having spent some more time checking my set up, I've convinced myself
> that the axis of the morse taper in my machine spindle is slightly
> tilted with respect to the axis of the spindle. This error adds or
> subtracts to the errors in the chuck and cutter, resulting in the
> variation I'm seeing.
>
> So the question now is whether to live with the run-out of up to 3
> thou, or to attempt to re-machine the spindle to improve the Morse
> taper accuracy.
>
> Thanks again
>
> Mike
Mike, many (many) years ago I attempted to make a small bench top mill
using various parts I had about. Having machined the spindle on an old
Colchester Student I had trouble getting a decent internal finish on
the 2MT socket. Although as far as I could measure it ran true I just
couldn't settle with the awfull looking finish. Someone lent me a 2MT
reamer "just to clean it up" and assured me it would follow the bored
taper. I attacked the spindle with that and it never ran true again, I
eventually remade the spindle and learnt to live with the internal
finish.
These days and assuming the spindle outer diameter is true and the
spindle is not bent I might be tempted to set up a small grinder in the
tool post and grind the internal taper. Run the lathe at top speed and
use the top slide if it has sufficient travel to get the correct taper.
It takes a little trial and error to set the top slide "just so" but
I've done it on a small 1MT spindle for a high speed drilling machine
and after a couple of attempts I got good coverage when tested with a
1MT drill and engineers blue. The machine is not finished so I can't
tell you if it has been completely satisfactory. I spent a lot of time
setting the spindle up in the 4 jaw to run "spot on" and I bet I didn't
remove more than a couple of thou in total. While I was lucky that my
lathe spindle was large enough to take the drill spindle I suppose if
it isn't you could always set it up with the fixed steady and do the
same thing, just a bit more fiddly.
As Andrew says and Adrian shows, there will always be a little run out,
If the machine is doing what you need I'd be tempted to carry on using
it. Of course this a case of "do as I say not as I do" with me because
if I've spotted something that I'm not happy with I just have to get it
right. I can't help myself even though I have a pile of experiences
where the trouble to fix something was far worse than the perceived
problem. Anyway, good luck whatever you decide to do.
Best regards
Keith
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Posted by John Stevenson on September 23, 2006, 8:30 pm
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On 23 Sep 2006 16:45:39 -0700, jontom_1uk@hotmail.com wrote:
>
>mike.crossfield@virgin.net wrote:
>
>> Thanks Keith, much appreciated. Good of you to carry out these tests.
>>
>> Having spent some more time checking my set up, I've convinced myself
>> that the axis of the morse taper in my machine spindle is slightly
>> tilted with respect to the axis of the spindle. This error adds or
>> subtracts to the errors in the chuck and cutter, resulting in the
>> variation I'm seeing.
>>
>> So the question now is whether to live with the run-out of up to 3
>> thou, or to attempt to re-machine the spindle to improve the Morse
>> taper accuracy.
>>
>> Thanks again
>>
>> Mike
>
>Mike, many (many) years ago I attempted to make a small bench top mill
>using various parts I had about. Having machined the spindle on an old
>Colchester Student I had trouble getting a decent internal finish on
>the 2MT socket. Although as far as I could measure it ran true I just
>couldn't settle with the awfull looking finish. Someone lent me a 2MT
>reamer "just to clean it up" and assured me it would follow the bored
>taper. I attacked the spindle with that and it never ran true again, I
>eventually remade the spindle and learnt to live with the internal
>finish.
>
>These days and assuming the spindle outer diameter is true and the
>spindle is not bent I might be tempted to set up a small grinder in the
>tool post and grind the internal taper. Run the lathe at top speed and
>use the top slide if it has sufficient travel to get the correct taper.
>It takes a little trial and error to set the top slide "just so" but
>I've done it on a small 1MT spindle for a high speed drilling machine
>and after a couple of attempts I got good coverage when tested with a
>1MT drill and engineers blue. The machine is not finished so I can't
>tell you if it has been completely satisfactory. I spent a lot of time
>setting the spindle up in the 4 jaw to run "spot on" and I bet I didn't
>remove more than a couple of thou in total. While I was lucky that my
>lathe spindle was large enough to take the drill spindle I suppose if
>it isn't you could always set it up with the fixed steady and do the
>same thing, just a bit more fiddly.
>
>As Andrew says and Adrian shows, there will always be a little run out,
>If the machine is doing what you need I'd be tempted to carry on using
>it. Of course this a case of "do as I say not as I do" with me because
>if I've spotted something that I'm not happy with I just have to get it
>right. I can't help myself even though I have a pile of experiences
>where the trouble to fix something was far worse than the perceived
>problem. Anyway, good luck whatever you decide to do.
>
>Best regards
>
>Keith
I built a Dore many years ago and from what I remember you could get
the spindle pre bored and reamed to MT2 or do it yourself.
MES then hired out a double ended MT2 plug so you could fit this
direct into the headstock spindle of an ML7 or similar, centre the end
and then turn the bearing diameters all at this setting so it ran
true.
.
--
Regards,
John Stevenson
Nottingham, England.
Visit the new Model Engineering adverts page at:-
http://www.homeworkshop.org.uk/
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Posted by Adrian Godwin on September 23, 2006, 5:44 pm
Please log in for more thread options jontom_1uk@hotmail.com wrote:
>
> mike.crossfield@virgin.net wrote:
>> I've just got my first milling machine up and running. It's a
>> Dore-Westbury which I've been restoring/improving for the last 3 or 4
>> years.
>>
>> The TIR on the spindle, measured using a DTI either on the external
>> Myford chuck register, or on the inside of the MT2 taper socket, is
>> just under a thou. This doesn't seem too bad (to me)
>>
> Mike, hi, I have to declare straight away that I am no expert on
> milling but I thought I would post a few experiences just to see if we
> can stimulate some advice from the better informed.
>
I'm likewise no expert, but I do have the same Dore-Westbury (Mk 1).
I've measured the TIR at just under 2 thou on the register or in the
taper, rising to about 5 thou on a cutter in an end-mill holder.
So at least yours is better than mine !
-adrian
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Posted by on September 24, 2006, 4:33 am
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Adrian Godwin wrote:
> jontom_1uk@hotmail.com wrote:
> >
> > mike.crossfield@virgin.net wrote:
> >> I've just got my first milling machine up and running. It's a
> >> Dore-Westbury which I've been restoring/improving for the last 3 or 4
> >> years.
> >>
> >> The TIR on the spindle, measured using a DTI either on the external
> >> Myford chuck register, or on the inside of the MT2 taper socket, is
> >> just under a thou. This doesn't seem too bad (to me)
> >>
>
> > Mike, hi, I have to declare straight away that I am no expert on
> > milling but I thought I would post a few experiences just to see if we
> > can stimulate some advice from the better informed.
> >
>
> I'm likewise no expert, but I do have the same Dore-Westbury (Mk 1).
> I've measured the TIR at just under 2 thou on the register or in the
> taper, rising to about 5 thou on a cutter in an end-mill holder.
> So at least yours is better than mine !
>
> -adrian
Many thanks to all who replied for the helpful comments.
Like Keith, once I know somthing is wrong I feel compelled to fix it.
However, I've had a similar bad experience in the past when trying to
"improve" a dodgy Morse taper socket (I made it worse, not better!), so
I think I will try to live with the error.
I take comfort from Adrian's measurements on his own DW. Maybe mine,
a very early Mk1 machine, isn't so bad after all.
Mike
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>
> Having spent some more time checking my set up, I've convinced myself
> that the axis of the morse taper in my machine spindle is slightly
> tilted with respect to the axis of the spindle. This error adds or
> subtracts to the errors in the chuck and cutter, resulting in the
> variation I'm seeing.
>
> So the question now is whether to live with the run-out of up to 3
> thou, or to attempt to re-machine the spindle to improve the Morse
> taper accuracy.
>
> Thanks again
>
> Mike