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Model Engineering in UK - Model engineering, metal crafts in UK
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Posted by Stephen Howard on October 12, 2006, 4:26 pm
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On Thu, 12 Oct 2006 19:34:00 GMT, "Bob Minchin"
>
<snip>
>
>Stephen,
>
>It is absolutely vital that the insulation you choose does not allow water
>vapour to pass through it onto the cold metal surface. THis will condense
>and saturate the insulation and then drip though into your workshop.
>As you have seen the foam sprayed areas are quite dry and this type
>ofinsulation will quite likely be the best for your application.
>
>I don't know what the cost would be or how much you have to cover but
>getting a contractor in and spraying with 2 part polyurethane foam might be
>worth considering.
>There is a system that is used to spray the underside of slate roofs which
>bonds slipped slates. This might do the job and be available in 'domestic'
>quantities more easily.
>
>Good Luck
>
I'm told the standard practice is a triple layer comprising a ceiling
layer, a waterproof membrane and some kind of insulation. The question
is whether this is enough to effectively cure the condensation problem
on an ali roof. I'm still uncertain as to whether it would be best to
seal the insulated roof ( at the ends ) or leave it ventilated.
With 400 sq ft to cover I could be looking at the best part of £500
for a diy foam job...and that's a LOT of beer tokens.
At least ( so far ) I haven't noticed any moisture condensing on the
tools..
Regards,
--
Stephen Howard - Woodwind repairs & period restorations
http://www.shwoodwind.co.uk
Emails to: showard{who is at}shwoodwindcouk
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Posted by Charles Lamont on October 12, 2006, 6:05 pm
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>There is a system that is used to spray the underside of slate roofs which
>bonds slipped slates.
Or tiled ones. And which, in my experience, is advised against by
architects and surveyors as a bodge that makes any subsequent work
virtually impossible.
We know this shop has a corrugated roof, but what of the rest of the
construction? Is it worth doing properly? Would it be a good idea to
bite the bullet, take the bull by the horns, face the inevitable, seize
the moment, and fit a real roof, now?
--
Charles Lamont
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Posted by Mark Rand on October 12, 2006, 6:56 pm
Please log in for more thread options On Thu, 12 Oct 2006 23:05:27 +0100, Charles Lamont
>
>>There is a system that is used to spray the underside of slate roofs which
>>bonds slipped slates.
>
>Or tiled ones. And which, in my experience, is advised against by
>architects and surveyors as a bodge that makes any subsequent work
>virtually impossible.
>
>We know this shop has a corrugated roof, but what of the rest of the
>construction? Is it worth doing properly? Would it be a good idea to
>bite the bullet, take the bull by the horns, face the inevitable, seize
>the moment, and fit a real roof, now?
Along those lines, I believe that Corus (British steel) do pre-foamed roofing
panels with about 2" of foam on, We have used them at work in a number of
locations and they are very satisfactory. A completely over the top solution
is Structural Insulated Panes like wot I used in my shed. They are a bit
heavier (up to 100kg for an 8'x4'x6" sheet) but they are pretty strong and
don't let the warm out or in.
Mark Rand
RTFM
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Posted by mark on October 12, 2006, 6:56 pm
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Stephen Howard wrote:
> On Thu, 12 Oct 2006 07:23:10 +0100, Tim Leech
>
> >On Thu, 12 Oct 2006 00:14:43 +0100, Stephen Howard
> >
> >>
> >>Having recently moved shop I now find myself beneath a corrugated
> >>aluminium roof.
> >>First order of business was to seal the various gaps and holes to
> >>prevent the ingress of rainwater - but I also need to tackle the
> >>problem of condensation.
> >>I'm sure many readers here will have dealt with such problems before -
> >>any handy hints?
> >>It's likely that I'll resort to insulating the roof - if only to save
> >>heat and cut out the noise of the rain.
> >>
> > Mine used to have a corrugated glass fibre roof. It was a nightmare
> >in the winter, ice would form on the underside overnight, then a bit
> >of heat in the morning would melt the ice & would literally be rining
> >in the shop.
> >Get it insulated as soon as you can!
> >
> ..Just avoiding the drips here...
>
> I used expanding foam to seal up a few holes, and I notice this
> morning that although the roof is completely covered in condensation,
> none of the spot of foam are wet...even small beads.
> My concern is that if I insulate the roof without first addressing the
> condensation problem, I run the risk of simply 'boarding up' the
> problem.
> Might grab a bottle of that spray foam insulation and see just how
> thinly it can be applied and still make a difference.
>
> Regards,
>
>
>
> --
> Stephen Howard - Woodwind repairs & period restorations
> www.shwoodwind.co.uk
> Emails to: showardshwoodwindcouk
I built a box under the apex on mine ...this is vented at both ends
The fascia boards have a vent between each rafter ....the whole lot is
then insulated with a double layer of acoustic tiles ...that I got from
a supermarket that was being revamped. ...FREE
The first layer of acoustic tiles I nailed up to the underside of the
rafters...putting a mixture of crumbled acoustic tile and pva mixture
up against each tile as cement between each panel.
The second layer was nailed on again (longer nails) but staggering them
so the joints didn't line up with the first layer.
The cavity above them is vented from the fascia boards...right up to
the box under the apex ..
The fascia board vents are behind the gutters ...so they don't get the
howling wind blowing up them
Works really well ...and I noticed a hell of a difference in machine
noise now ...everthings so much more quieter.
I heat my place with a paraffin jet engine type thing ...on a
thermostat...set at 12 degrees
no condensation ..... well only a tiny bit on the windows when its in
the minuses outside.
the secret is ...constant temperature 24/7
walls warm up...machines warm up .;..and there is no cold surface for
it to happen on.
if I wasn't to keep it constantly heated like this ...in the winter I
would have massive problems if I went and turned that jet engine thing
on then.
I am now looking for an old oil fired central heating boiler ....I will
have this connected to a car radiator in the roof ...with a fan blowing
thru it downwards .,.....advantages would be ...safer ..use the same
amount of fuel ...and maybe I could get away with leaving the workshop
for a few days unheated ...the space heater thing, don't like all these
start ups and close downs ..the nose cone corroded away within the
first few weeks...after that I had the thing pointing into a large
metal box ...so I could sleep at night...without worrying about the
fire risk
Last year I was using a lot of paraffin at first ( about two weeks
before I realised) because I was heating too 17 degrees .
I then realised I could get away with just ten degrees ...and raise it
to 17 degrees whist I was in there ...without creating a due point .
Once the workshop is up to temp ...it keeps warm and the
spaceheater/jet thing only comes on for 7-8 Min's every 1.5 hours ...at
normal winter temps
When it's freezing it will come on every 45 Min's for 8-9 Min's
Total cost of heating it from November thru till May at 10 degrees
worked out about =A3150 in paraffin. (bulk delivered)...6 months ....83p
a day ...and its a 26 x26 workshop with apex roof ....so must have done
something right with the insulation.
Not keen on the space heater this year .....tried it, and it works
.=2E.but too risky for fire risk and insurers me thinks.
Anyone here running one of those listeroids here ....with a generator
set-up.
I could get two bangs for the same buck with one of them.
All the best..mark
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