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Posted by Greg on October 4, 2006, 3:45 am
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John Stevenson wrote:
> A point here Greg on the exhibition models.
> Many of the machines on show are actually poor relations of what you
> can expect from current shipments.
> Many of these are first generation or second generation of machines
> when the supplier is probably on their 10 shipment.
> They can't afford to keep changing show models over, fitting them to
> transit stands etc for every shipment.
>
> As regards preparing, the public and shipper do this all the while <g>
> Many have got bent handles, missing knobs from light fingered parties
> etc.
>
> With the odd exception of a new model I'll bet you that most off the
> shelf items are better than show models.
The show models are indeed often different tocurrent production, but
that's another issue as it can mean you don't get what you think you've
bought which may be a big disappointment.
Getting back to the preparation issue, I know of people who've bought
these machines and found they couldn't even turn the chuck for burr on
the gears and swarf in the oil, they've had to completely strip down
and rebuild them. Razor sharp edges that would cut you to shreads are
the norm and binding leadscrews are not uncommon to mention just a few
of the faults I've heard of. Even something as simple as the caliper I
bought at Pickering had to have the edges removed with an oil stone or
I would have slit my hands using it.
I'm not saying don't buy these machines, indeed they do offer a lot of
value for the money, lets face it a machine that would have cost
several months wages a few decades ago now costs a week or two's. I
routinely buy Chinese power tools etc because they're virtually
disposable at the price and are often as long lived as brand names at
double the price. The point is that people should be aware of what to
expect and not bleat so much when they get what they've paid for.
Greg
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Posted by Charles Ping on October 4, 2006, 4:34 am
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wrote:
Liberally snipped
>
>Getting back to the preparation issue, I know of people who've bought
>these machines and found they couldn't even turn the chuck for burr on
>the gears and swarf in the oil, they've had to completely strip down
>and rebuild them. Razor sharp edges that would cut you to shreads are
>the norm and binding leadscrews are not uncommon to mention just a few
>of the faults I've heard of. Even something as simple as the caliper I
>bought at Pickering had to have the edges removed with an oil stone or
>I would have slit my hands using it.
>
>Greg
Which is probably why Arc Euro Trade are honest enough to put two
prices up. An "in the box" price and an "engineer prepared" price.
That their engineer preparation on an X3 mill costs £255 should wave a
flag at anybody to show that these machines need a work over before
they are ready.
*Usual disclaimer - I've never bought anything from Arc Euro and don't
know them. I just think their approach to pricing has positives.
Charles
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Posted by Lester Caine on October 4, 2006, 7:34 am
Please log in for more thread options Charles Ping wrote:
> Which is probably why Arc Euro Trade are honest enough to put two
> prices up. An "in the box" price and an "engineer prepared" price.
> That their engineer preparation on an X3 mill costs £255 should wave a
> flag at anybody to show that these machines need a work over before
> they are ready.
And I know it takes a good day to do a machine to a standard Ketan is
happy to ship even given that they know exactly what they need to do. It
would probably take a few days starting from the unprepared box and you
will not have the tools for some of the jobs :(
I had the fun with my Centurion from Chester - if I had the option for
'prepared' today I'd take it ;)
--
Lester Caine - G8HFL
-----------------------------
L.S.Caine Electronic Services - http://home.lsces.co.uk
Model Engineers Digital Workshop -
http://home.lsces.co.uk/ModelEngineersDigitalWorkshop/
Treasurer - Firebird Foundation Inc. - http://www.firebirdsql.org/index.php
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Posted by ACE on October 4, 2006, 11:09 am
Please log in for more thread options With reference to 'pete's' comments regarding his Model B Super he
purchased from us nearly 12 months ago we feel it is now time we
responded to this issue having spoken with the customer.
The fault was first reported to us on Saturday morning which as you
will note we do open on a Saturday morning as a service to our
customers, albeit with skeletal staff, which not everyone offers.
The Engineer 'pete' spoke to tried to assist and it seems there is some
confusion over this conversation. He suggested that in the event the
customer did not have the relevant gasket or seal, as a temporary
measure, cardboard can be used as a stop gap until the correct part
could be supplied. At this point, it was not possible for the engineer
to check from our files if the machine in question was still under its
12 month warranty period, he was unable to do this until Monday morning
when our office was fully operational again. This conversation was also
reported to the office sales manager who then acted upon this
information, found the machine was still under warranty and we tried to
contact the customer to advise him of this and begin the process of
trying to rectify the problem. Unfortunately after several attempts we
could not get any answer but left an answer machine message but as of
yet we have had no reply. In every effort to contact 'pete' we sent him
an email at around 11.30am on Monday suggesting some possible solutions
and if this was unsuccessful to get in touch with us so we could
arrange to send replacement parts. We had a response to this when our
office reopened on Tuesday morning thanking us for the information and
he would keep us informed, we have no further replies.
We wish to clarify that regarding Engineer site visits, our terms and
conditions clearly state that an engineer visit can be arranged should
this be required but this is chargeable to the customer. Our standard
warranty is a 12 months manufacturers parts warranty, which is a return
to base warranty, though we do offer technical telephone suport when
required.
We do appreciate that we cannot please everyone all of the time and we
do appreciate and take on board all of your comments. As we are one of
the largest companies supplying Model Engineering equipment in the UK
we fully appreciate there is always room for improvement and we will
continue to try to do this.
Best Regards
Anthony Edwards
Office Sales Manager
Chester UK Limited
Lester Caine wrote:
> Charles Ping wrote:
>
> > Which is probably why Arc Euro Trade are honest enough to put two
> > prices up. An "in the box" price and an "engineer prepared" price.
> > That their engineer preparation on an X3 mill costs =A3255 should wave a
> > flag at anybody to show that these machines need a work over before
> > they are ready.
>
> And I know it takes a good day to do a machine to a standard Ketan is
> happy to ship even given that they know exactly what they need to do. It
> would probably take a few days starting from the unprepared box and you
> will not have the tools for some of the jobs :(
>
> I had the fun with my Centurion from Chester - if I had the option for
> 'prepared' today I'd take it ;)
>
> --
> Lester Caine - G8HFL
> -----------------------------
> L.S.Caine Electronic Services - http://home.lsces.co.uk
> Model Engineers Digital Workshop -
> http://home.lsces.co.uk/ModelEngineersDigitalWorkshop/
> Treasurer - Firebird Foundation Inc. - http://www.firebirdsql.org/index.p=
hp
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Posted by Greg on October 2, 2006, 3:20 pm
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> Nothing to do with the quality,I knew what I was buying.
>
> It was the way Chester made a mess of it before it was delivered,just
> minor irritations like the pyramids of cast iron dust on the ways where
> they hadn't even bothered to cover them up when they drilled and tapped
> for the DRO,the fact that they'd fitted the 3 phase motor and the belts
> didn't line up so there was no way to run the machine,and a lot of other
> problems that Chester caused.
>
> They turned a useable machine into a POS.
In that case you should have rejected it, you have a very good case if you
reject goods as unfit for purpose when they arrive, but no case at all if
you accept them and then complain a year later. I buy everything on credit
card for this very reason, if you reject it and notify the card company then
you're in a good position because it's their money not yours and they will
take the issue up if you haven't received merchantable goods.
Greg
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> Many of the machines on show are actually poor relations of what you
> can expect from current shipments.
> Many of these are first generation or second generation of machines
> when the supplier is probably on their 10 shipment.
> They can't afford to keep changing show models over, fitting them to
> transit stands etc for every shipment.
>
> As regards preparing, the public and shipper do this all the while <g>
> Many have got bent handles, missing knobs from light fingered parties
> etc.
>
> With the odd exception of a new model I'll bet you that most off the
> shelf items are better than show models.