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Posted by AC on May 23, 2008, 8:14 am
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>I have a ml7 lathe and am about to buy a set of lathe tools and was
> wondering what view others have regarding the best type, HSS or
> Indexables
A beginners thoughts:
Most here seem to say buy blanks and grind your own.
But, if you are a beginner isn't that just adding something else to learn
and worry about? Is it not better for a beginner who already has a lathe to
buy some ready to use tools so that they can get the hand of using the lathe
first? Then later on learn to grind their own tools?
I mean, if you screw up the grinding you're never going to begin turning,
right? Or the turning could be terrible with a rubbish home brew tool. You
get down and potentially give up.
When I got my ML7, also got 1 tool, clearly ground by the previous owner. It
worked ok, but I went out and got a set of cheapo tools to get the hang of
the lathe. Then I started grinding up the cheapo tools to get the hang of
grinding. Then lastly I bought some good blanks and now make my tools.
Its all very well old timers saying home brew is best, but for a beginner,
that to me seems like a route to possibly not ever getting going. Or a
recipe for added problems.
Beginners, and I still consider my self a beginner after 2 years of owning
my ML7, need it simple.
So I say get some cheapish ready made tools, get the hang of the lathe, find
the limitations, and then look at grinding your own tools a little later on
( or in parallel to learing about turning. That way you get to play at
lathing immediately, with out the added pressure of grinding tools.
AC
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Posted by Trevor Jones on May 23, 2008, 9:01 am
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AC wrote:
>
>>I have a ml7 lathe and am about to buy a set of lathe tools and was
>>wondering what view others have regarding the best type, HSS or
>>Indexables
>
>
> A beginners thoughts:
>
> Most here seem to say buy blanks and grind your own.
>
> But, if you are a beginner isn't that just adding something else to learn
> and worry about? Is it not better for a beginner who already has a lathe to
> buy some ready to use tools so that they can get the hand of using the lathe
> first? Then later on learn to grind their own tools?
If you are a beginner, begin by learning how to grind tools. It is
part of learning how the lathe cuts, and why it won't, at times.
If you never understand the basics of the physyics of cutting metal,
you will never understand why you are not getting the results you wish
to, or understand what has gone wrong (or right) with your set-up.
>
> I mean, if you screw up the grinding you're never going to begin turning,
> right? Or the turning could be terrible with a rubbish home brew tool. You
> get down and potentially give up.
An eight year old can learn to grind a decent tool. It is an
elementary level skill.
All new skills come with a learning period. Best to get it over and done!
>
> When I got my ML7, also got 1 tool, clearly ground by the previous owner. It
> worked ok, but I went out and got a set of cheapo tools to get the hang of
> the lathe. Then I started grinding up the cheapo tools to get the hang of
> grinding. Then lastly I bought some good blanks and now make my tools.
Pity! You were stuck using one tool, and had no other options. Had you
learned to grind your tools early on, you would have had ALL options
open to you right away.
>
> Its all very well old timers saying home brew is best, but for a beginner,
> that to me seems like a route to possibly not ever getting going. Or a
> recipe for added problems.
Gawd! You make it sound like getting three angles ground so they meet
at a sharp edge, is some kind of bloody great miracle! It isn't!
>
> Beginners, and I still consider my self a beginner after 2 years of owning
> my ML7, need it simple.
If you had started out learning to grind a tool for yourself, right
off, you would be a lot further along. You would not have run into
whatever stunbling blocks that have held you back, and you would have a
far greater skillset in hand, IMO.
>
> So I say get some cheapish ready made tools, get the hang of the lathe, find
> the limitations, and then look at grinding your own tools a little later on
> ( or in parallel to learing about turning. That way you get to play at
> lathing immediately, with out the added pressure of grinding tools.
>
Grinding tools is not pressure. It is a basic skill, that should
require about as much concentration as learning to tie ones shoelaces.
If you are getting scared by it, you are spending too much time
considering the problems, and not enough time grinding tool blanks.
Really!
Easy!
Not Magic!
Not to be feared!
But if you never try it, you will never learn it!
Once you have this skill, all options are open.
Cheers
Trevor Jones
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Posted by Richard on May 23, 2008, 2:37 pm
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> An eight year old can learn to grind a decent tool. It is an
>elementary level skill.
I was when I did and I agree whole heartedly with the overall tone of
this thread. In general get HSS blanks and grind your own. I have a
few indexables I keep for nasty jobs like stainless and getting below
the skin on burned & rusty brake disks, but for 95% of normal daily
use you can't wear out HSS fast enough to worry about - not playing
about in your own shed, production work is a different kettle of fish
altogether.
Richard
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Posted by JG on May 23, 2008, 6:14 pm
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from Richard
> > An eight year old can learn to grind a decent tool. It is an
> >elementary level skill.
> I was when I did and I agree whole heartedly with the overall tone of
> this thread. In general get HSS blanks and grind your own. I have a
> few indexables I keep for nasty jobs like stainless and getting below
> the skin on burned & rusty brake disks, but for 95% of normal daily
> use you can't wear out HSS fast enough to worry about - not playing
> about in your own shed, production work is a different kettle of fish
> altogether.
I was fortunate enough the get an apprenticeship with Coventry Gauge &
Tool where preparing tools for lathe work came second only to general
'fitting' work.
Although I didn't touch a lathe between 1962 and 2005 I still retain all
the skills I gained during the apprenticeship and sharpen all my tools
by hand on a bench grinder - I really do mean _all_ my tools - today
I converted a broken 1.4mm carbide drill to an end mill and made a 0.3mm
wide carbide parting off tool from another damaged 0.5mm drill. 95% of
my lathe tooling is HSS but I do have a few indexable carbide tips that
I use as if they were HSS (as far as reginding/sharpening is concerned)
these are used on 'difficult' materials such as Stainless Steel, Spring
Steel and Cast Iron.
For me, each tool material has its particular merit and knowing which to
use and when is the skill. Buying pre-ground tooling might be alright -
and even necessary - in a producion environment but for 'hobby/home
workshop' use it is imperative to cultivate the skills needed to keep
all tools sharp - a blunt tool is a liability!
JG
JG
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Posted by Richard on May 24, 2008, 5:48 am
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>Aldi et al do offhand grinders from time to time at c £15. My dad bought
>me mine yonks ago and before I got a lathe, regardless of the HSS tool
>grinding debate, it's a key tool if you want to do metalworking stuff.
>
>What sort of stuff do you intend to make?
>
>Steve
They're also handy for sharpening drills and centre punches and taking
the burrs off cold chisels and generally removing relatively small
quantities of hard-ish material. Many of the typical small trade books
like Zeus and the Dormer Drill book that turn up a boot sales etc for
a quid or two have diagrams of what you're aiming for in terms of tool
shape. Hand sharpening drills can be a bit tricky, especially in small
sizes, but again it's a skill well worth learning even if only to
recover broken ones to start with.
Richard
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> wondering what view others have regarding the best type, HSS or
> Indexables