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Posted by TinLizziedl on October 23, 2007, 4:25 pm
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Howdy! I've been living in a tank for a month and a half now, cladding
the longitudinal stiffeners (0.5" HY-80) with 11018-M. Every stiffener
has at least 3 butt welds in it. Two of them are short, just under the
edge of the frames, one of them is long (the entire height of the
stiffener), all are vertical butts with 3/32" reinforcement.
Here's the question: Can I clad weld (horizontal stringers) right over
the existing butt welds, or do I need to jump over them (skipping them
for now)?
I work to WP-1688 for the Navy, and I have asked my supervisor, and my
process manager, and other welders, yet no one will give me a straight
answer.
By the book, we can clad weld 0.5" HY-80 with 60 degree preheat, 300
degree interpass, but for a butt weld, we need 125 degree preheat, 300
interpass.
The book doesn't specify what to do with an existing butt that is
getting cladded over!
Thinking about it, I'm creating a HAZ like a blanket over this whole
area, how would this affect the existing through-thickness HAZ in the
butt?
Any one ever have issues with this? I don't want to go down with a
SubSafe bust, but the damned management won't answer the question!!
TinLizzie
PS: I have been skipping over all the butts in my clad sites- pending
an answer. This way I can either clad them without heat, or come back
later and put up strip heaters.
Thank you!
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Posted by Serial # 19781010 on October 24, 2007, 10:44 pm
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Don't you have access to a 138 type to write a weld instruction for
this? What activity are you at?
wrote:
>Howdy! I've been living in a tank for a month and a half now, cladding
>the longitudinal stiffeners (0.5" HY-80) with 11018-M. Every stiffener
>has at least 3 butt welds in it. Two of them are short, just under the
>edge of the frames, one of them is long (the entire height of the
>stiffener), all are vertical butts with 3/32" reinforcement.
>
>Here's the question: Can I clad weld (horizontal stringers) right over
>the existing butt welds, or do I need to jump over them (skipping them
>for now)?
>
>I work to WP-1688 for the Navy, and I have asked my supervisor, and my
>process manager, and other welders, yet no one will give me a straight
>answer.
>
>By the book, we can clad weld 0.5" HY-80 with 60 degree preheat, 300
>degree interpass, but for a butt weld, we need 125 degree preheat, 300
>interpass.
>
>The book doesn't specify what to do with an existing butt that is
>getting cladded over!
>
>Thinking about it, I'm creating a HAZ like a blanket over this whole
>area, how would this affect the existing through-thickness HAZ in the
>butt?
>
>Any one ever have issues with this? I don't want to go down with a
>SubSafe bust, but the damned management won't answer the question!!
>
>TinLizzie
>
>PS: I have been skipping over all the butts in my clad sites- pending
>an answer. This way I can either clad them without heat, or come back
>later and put up strip heaters.
>
>Thank you!
--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com
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Posted by Serial # 19781010 on October 24, 2007, 11:02 pm
Please log in for more thread options Default to the more stringent requirement. For example, in this case
if you were cladding alone, 60 F preheat would suffice. If you were
doing butt welds alone, then you would require 125 F preheat.
So, preheat to 125 F and maintain the 300 F interpass.
But I would still inquire about a specific weld instruction in order
to clarify any gray areas.
wrote:
>Howdy! I've been living in a tank for a month and a half now, cladding
>the longitudinal stiffeners (0.5" HY-80) with 11018-M. Every stiffener
>has at least 3 butt welds in it. Two of them are short, just under the
>edge of the frames, one of them is long (the entire height of the
>stiffener), all are vertical butts with 3/32" reinforcement.
>
>Here's the question: Can I clad weld (horizontal stringers) right over
>the existing butt welds, or do I need to jump over them (skipping them
>for now)?
>
>I work to WP-1688 for the Navy, and I have asked my supervisor, and my
>process manager, and other welders, yet no one will give me a straight
>answer.
>
>By the book, we can clad weld 0.5" HY-80 with 60 degree preheat, 300
>degree interpass, but for a butt weld, we need 125 degree preheat, 300
>interpass.
>
>The book doesn't specify what to do with an existing butt that is
>getting cladded over!
>
>Thinking about it, I'm creating a HAZ like a blanket over this whole
>area, how would this affect the existing through-thickness HAZ in the
>butt?
>
>Any one ever have issues with this? I don't want to go down with a
>SubSafe bust, but the damned management won't answer the question!!
>
>TinLizzie
>
>PS: I have been skipping over all the butts in my clad sites- pending
>an answer. This way I can either clad them without heat, or come back
>later and put up strip heaters.
>
>Thank you!
--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com
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Posted by TinLizziedl on October 25, 2007, 1:22 pm
Please log in for more thread options Hello, and thank you for responding! I'm working at PSNS, on 2nd shift.
I would have thought that my Process Manager would have either called or
more likely e-mailed our Code 138 people and that we would have gotten a
response by now (it's been 5 days).
I think part of the problem is that nobody wants to put heat on in this
tank until the last possible moment, when we will need it for the frames
and the Pressure Hull. It's small, tight, and the ambient is already 80
degrees. This is also the most "paperworked" tank that any of us have
ever seen outside of an RC. The "package" is over 3 inches thick!
Dayshift has asked for so much technical direction that now we are
stuck, and need yet more direction to clarify our existing directions.
You simply would not believe how many 20-B forms we have.
Technicalities aside, do you know what (if any) damage would be done by
simply continuing a single layer clad over an existing butt? We're not
creating a haz that runs through the thickness of the plates....
If you have any contact with your 138 people, what have they said?
I'm getting the impression that this is the type of question that one
doesn't ask here. Perhaps because requiring heat on the butts would
dramatically slow down production? Risk of burns goes way up (small
spaces- I'm 5'11" and 148 lbs, and I have a hard time turning around in
this tank between stiffeners)?
Perhaps there -is- no good reason (based on physics, not paperwork) why
we should put heat on?
I know I don't want to, but I will if I have to....
Thank you,
Tin Lizzie
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Posted by Serial # 19781010 on October 26, 2007, 2:46 am
Please log in for more thread options You can be technically correct, 100% right, but administratively wrong
by not following the local written "law" or procedure.
You can imagine if you get called on the carpet, for example, to
explain as to how you came up with the method, no matter how correct,
and you reply, well, I posted to the net and that was the response
that I got from an ex-138 type...
After the laughter dies down, yes, they will fire the rest of 138, and
you along with them. Just friendly advice.
We used to have a welder who relished in challenging our weld
auditors. (I believe the auditor transferred to PSNS). He thought he
knew the procedures inside out. We used to pull the certs of
violators and make them take a written test, etc...
One poor sap got caught so many times they made him like a permanent
X26 procedure auditor, if I recall.
Cladding a single layer over a butt weld cannot be that detrimental,
but again, heed my advice and go to the more stringent extreme.
Preheat IAW the butt weld requirement, 125 F, UNTIL YOU GET WRITTEN
INSTRUCTIONS TO REDUCE TO CYA.
Consider the case of "excess reinforcement". What do they make you do
if you exceed the height reinforcement? Grind it down?
Again, I can just hear five 138 types and you will get five different
arguments about this issue.....
--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com
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>the longitudinal stiffeners (0.5" HY-80) with 11018-M. Every stiffener
>has at least 3 butt welds in it. Two of them are short, just under the
>edge of the frames, one of them is long (the entire height of the
>stiffener), all are vertical butts with 3/32" reinforcement.
>
>Here's the question: Can I clad weld (horizontal stringers) right over
>the existing butt welds, or do I need to jump over them (skipping them
>for now)?
>
>I work to WP-1688 for the Navy, and I have asked my supervisor, and my
>process manager, and other welders, yet no one will give me a straight
>answer.
>
>By the book, we can clad weld 0.5" HY-80 with 60 degree preheat, 300
>degree interpass, but for a butt weld, we need 125 degree preheat, 300
>interpass.
>
>The book doesn't specify what to do with an existing butt that is
>getting cladded over!
>
>Thinking about it, I'm creating a HAZ like a blanket over this whole
>area, how would this affect the existing through-thickness HAZ in the
>butt?
>
>Any one ever have issues with this? I don't want to go down with a
>SubSafe bust, but the damned management won't answer the question!!
>
>TinLizzie
>
>PS: I have been skipping over all the butts in my clad sites- pending
>an answer. This way I can either clad them without heat, or come back
>later and put up strip heaters.
>
>Thank you!