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Welding Forums - Welding of materials for manufacture & repair.
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Posted by HC on July 1, 2008, 1:05 am
Please log in for more thread options
>
>
> > For the home smoker I am building the main tank is going to be a 100
> > gallon air tank.
> > The smoker I built last year at school is a 300 gallon air tank that
> > came from our air system.
> > The BIG tank at school is a 500 gallon air tank I found at the junk
> > yard for scrap price of around $180.
>
> FWIW, I acquired a compressor tank (80 gallons?) free at a metal recycling
> place. I called the "boiler and pressure vessel" inspector at the city
(Seattle)
> to find out what couold be done to test it to determine if it was safe. He
> quickly said he would be in the area the next day and offered to come check it
> for me. He came, and checked various parts of the tank for metal thickness
using
> an ultrasonic measuring device, and assured me it was fine. No charge. Thank
you
> for our fine government. Who says they can't do anything right?
B - O - N - U - S !!!
:)
But how did you get the scrap yard to give it to you free in the first
place? It should have had value even as just scrap steel.
Regardless, love the input; maybe others can have similar results;
very useful if you're trying to get a new air tank instead of a new
smoker.
Thanks.
--HC
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Posted by Bob F on July 2, 2008, 11:03 am
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>>
>>
>> > For the home smoker I am building the main tank is going to be a 100
>> > gallon air tank.
>> > The smoker I built last year at school is a 300 gallon air tank that
>> > came from our air system.
>> > The BIG tank at school is a 500 gallon air tank I found at the junk
>> > yard for scrap price of around $180.
>>
>> FWIW, I acquired a compressor tank (80 gallons?) free at a metal recycling
>> place. I called the "boiler and pressure vessel" inspector at the city
>> (Seattle)
>> to find out what couold be done to test it to determine if it was safe. He
>> quickly said he would be in the area the next day and offered to come check
>> it
>> for me. He came, and checked various parts of the tank for metal thickness
>> using
>> an ultrasonic measuring device, and assured me it was fine. No charge. Thank
>> you
>> for our fine government. Who says they can't do anything right?
>
> B - O - N - U - S !!!
>
> :)
>
> But how did you get the scrap yard to give it to you free in the first
> place? It should have had value even as just scrap steel.
>
I visit there often, am friendly with the help, and drop off a little homebrew
once in a while.
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Posted by HC on July 2, 2008, 2:23 pm
Please log in for more thread options >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> >> > For the home smoker I am building the main tank is going to be a 100
> >> > gallon air tank.
> >> > The smoker I built last year at school is a 300 gallon air tank that
> >> > came from our air system.
> >> > The BIG tank at school is a 500 gallon air tank I found at the junk
> >> > yard for scrap price of around $180.
>
> >> FWIW, I acquired a compressor tank (80 gallons?) free at a metal recyc=
ling
> >> place. I called the "boiler and pressure vessel" inspector at the city
> >> (Seattle)
> >> to find out what couold be done to test it to determine if it was safe=
. He
> >> quickly said he would be in the area the next day and offered to come =
check
> >> it
> >> for me. He came, and checked various parts of the tank for metal thick=
ness
> >> using
> >> an ultrasonic measuring device, and assured me it was fine. No charge.=
Thank
> >> you
> >> for our fine government. Who says they can't do anything right?
>
> > B - O - N - U - S !!!
>
> > :)
>
> > But how did you get the scrap yard to give it to you free in the first
> > place? =A0It should have had value even as just scrap steel.
>
> I visit there often, am friendly with the help, and drop off a little hom=
ebrew
> once in a while.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
Ahhh, yes, nothing like a little liquid gold to grease the skids. :)
--HC
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Posted by HC on July 1, 2008, 1:56 am
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Impressive, I never knew what it was. Looking it up indicates it is
related to or a member of a group of chemicals called thiols which are
composed of, in part, sulphur atoms which would help, I think, to
explain its funk. :)
Burning it out would be an arduous task to say the least, especially
when considering a large tank. And God help us all with our little
heads stuck inside a tube of steel burning that gunk out. I use (and
highly recommend) a 3M 7502 half-face respirator (the 7500 series has
the 7502 Medium and, I *think* the 7501 Small and the 7503 Large, but
I do not remember for sure) and the 3M fitlter pads 2097. With that
setup (the 2097 on the 7502) I cannot smell the grinder or the welder
or the darned mineral spirits paint (Rustoleum High Temp quarts I
spray on my smokers). The respirator costs about 25 bucks and the
pads are, IIRC, about 10 bucks a pair. Worth every penny when you
don't blow black mucus from your nose for hours after working in the
shop.
Any thoughts, good or bad, on the other Miller "combo" units such as
the Dynasty 200 they list under TIG machines? They claim it will do
stick and TIG but list it under the TIG secstion of their catalog. I
ask because, after another session in the shop today, I am wondering
(dreaming) that maybe TIG would help me have better results on some of
my finer welding (like hinges and door straps) and, if I'm going to
pony up the cash to buy a new unit, I would like it to be the best it
can be. I've welded aluminum one time only so I 'm not worried about
needing to TIG aluminum, just mild steel. So, the CST 280 can do TIG
but is listed under the Stick section of their catalog but the Dynasty
200 DX is listed under the TIG section of their catalog and can do
Stick. Ah, who knows, I think the marketing people make it this
confusing on purpose.
:)
--HC
Thanks again and I don't know
> In article
>
>
>
> > Hey, Ernie, thank you for your reply.
>
> > I looked that machine up and it sounds good to me. I like the lower
> > power consumption over the transformer/traditional styles. It's cool
> > that it could do some TIG work as, while I was working in the shop
> > yesterday, I was wondering if that process might work better for some
> > work I'm doing where I do short welds in an open area and my MIG is
> > leaving too much metal (even with the wire speed adjusted down).
> > Since I do all my work in the shop a generator machine isn't going to
> > do what I need; I have extended periods of setup and then intermittent
> > welds to make so a grid-supplied unit is ideal.
>
> > I'm not sure what part of the country you're in but I get my trailer
> > kits (axle, springs, hubs, bearings, hitch, et cetera) from
> > abctrailerparts.com in Alabama (I'm in Texas). It's a small outfit, I
> > think just the one guy, Randy, but he's been good to take care of my
> > orders for several years and the one time I had a problem with an axle
> > he got it taken care of. If you contact him, tell him Hartford sent
> > you. It won't get either of us a break on the price but it will
> > spread goodwill with him knowing I pointed business his way.
>
> > Just in case you've never done it, don't use an old propane tank if
> > you can help it. Whatever they put in those things to make the
> > propane smell is tenacious; I cut one up to make a charcoal cooker and
> > I took it to the car wash and pressure washed the inside (after I had
> > it cut open) and then make my cooker from it. It still smelled bad. I
> > had to build a couple of wood fires in it to get a coating on it and
> > I'm not convinced that I couldn't still smell that stuff some; I never
> > cooked on it. I did, however, not find any evidence of the "pockets
> > of gas" that everyone around here claim remain in the tank; the
> > propane had long since vacated the tank, it was jut the stink that was
> > left.
>
> > Thanks again.
>
> > --HC
>
> The chemical is called Methyl Mercaptan.
> It is one of the stinkiest things on earth.
>
> The only way I know to get rid of it is it burn it out with a BIG
> rosebud tip.
>
> For the home smoker I am building the main tank is going to be a 100
> gallon air tank.
> The smoker I built last year at school is a 300 gallon air tank that
> came from our air system.
> The BIG tank at school is a 500 gallon air tank I found at the junk
> yard for scrap price of around $180.
>
> > > OK to sum up you fried your little Stickmate, and would like to upgrade
> > > to something bigger.
> > > You have reasonably stable mains power, but not a lot of it.
>
> > > On the machines you list, any of the transformer machines would work,
> > > but I would avoid the shopmate like the plague.
> > > Miller invented that machine for schools, and that is where it should
> > > stay.
>
> > > The best machine that I can recommend is the Miller CST280 inverter.
>
> > >http://www.millerwelds.com/products/stick/cst-280/
>
> > > List price is around $2300, but the real price is more like $1900.
> > > I bought one for my school 2.5 years ago and it has been a workhorse
> > > ever since.
> > > Absolutely excellent stick welder, and can be used for basic TIG.
> > > It can use a foot pedal, but does not have high freq. start, AC output,
> > > or a gas valve.
> > > You can use a gas valve body TIG torch and it does have lift arc start.
> > > Aluminum up to 1/8" can be TIG welded using DC Electrode Positive, and
> > > a very large tungsten.
>
> > > The best bit is the power efficiency.
> > > It makes 6010 rod crackle with joy, and runs 7018 at a purr.
>
> > > At school we run it for extended periods of 180 - 210 amps output and
> > > it has never complained once.
>
> > > I put it above all the transformers you listed, and also Lincoln's
> > > comparable inverter machine, simply because Miller has inverters down
> > > pat.
>
> > > You will love the portability.
>
> > > The other viable option would be a generator machine, but with fuel
> > > prices soaring I am not sure how that would effect your bottom line.
>
> > > BTW I built a HUGE smoker/BBQ for the school from an old 300 gallon air
> > > tank.
> > > Works great.
> > > I have a 500 gallon tank I am tempted to build into a trailer mounted
> > > Smoker/BBQ.
>
> > > In article
>
> > > > Someone named/going by Steamboat Ed (steamer) read the following post
> > > > I had put in rec.metalworking and said I should post it here and ask
> > > > Ernie so here it is below. Thank anyone for your time. I basically
> > > > got two responses over there and only one really tried to address my
> > > > base question which is about a couple of machines I'm thinking of
> > > > buying to replace my current welder.
>
> > > > Original post below------
>
> > > > Hey, all, I currently have a Hobart Stickmate 235/160 AC/DC machine
> > > > and I am thinking of buying a larger machine; what I'd like is to know
> > > > thoughts and opinions about what would be a good machine to get.
>
> > > > I mostly do hobby welding but that may include hours of continuous
> > > > welding (I sometimes, rarely, will weld for a couple of hours non-
> > > > stop). I build smokers and have also built metal brackets to use to
> > > > raise my concrete foundation on my house (and lots of other projects),
> > > > and almost all the material I weld on is 1/4 inch to 3/8 inch thick.
> > > > Mostly I use 6010 or 6011 rods which are 1/8 inch diameter, although I
> > > > have found a really good use for 3/16 inch diameter 6010 rods. I have
> > > > also used 5/32 6013 and 7014, and most all of this has been done with
> > > > DC at the maximum output of my welder, 160 amps (well, whatever it
> > > > puts out when it's cranked up fully, nominally it is 160 amps).
>
> > > > I was in the middle of building 35 brackets to go under my foundation
> > > > last year when, POP, my little Hobart went from humming along to being
> > > > noisy as hell and it's never gotten quiet again. I'm not sure what
> > > > changed, maybe an adjustment screw on the slider in the thing fell
> > > > out, who knows? It gets hotter than hell (even with a 120 V, 112 CFM
> > > > fan scabbed over a hole immediately over the rectifier in the thing).
> > > > I don't use it all day any day, but, from time to time, I will crank
> > > > it up and burn rods for, literally, a couple of hours. I do a fair
> > > > amount of welding in the 90-120 amp range with 6011 rods that are 1/8
> > > > inch diameter, and also some 7018, 6013, 7014 rods, all at 1/8 inch
> > > > diameter at various amperages, but never anything below 75 amps.
>
> > > > I feel I'm asking too much, at the higher output, from my little
> > > > machine and would like a larger one. I live in rural (sort of, we
> > > > have a 24/7 Supercenter about 4 miles from me; how rural can it be?)
> > > > north central Texas and my power feed from the grid is what we call
> > > > 220 VAC, 60 Hz (but, with my RMS meter is really 250 VAC). Whatever
> > > > it is, it is single phase and not strung between two of the grid's
> > > > phases (208, I believe) as I have spoken to the utility to be sure.
> > > > My shop is fed off a 100 amp breaker from the power pole and has a 100
> > > > amp main breaker in the power panel/breaker box.
>
> > > > So, I started looking at the Lincoln Idealarc 250 with PFC (power
> > > > factor correction) it can draw as much as 68 amps at 230 VAC supply (I
> > > > presume that is what I have here as it is the closest of the voltages
> > > > I've seen to my voltage). I looked at a comparable (sort of) Miller
> > > > unit the Dialarc 250 AC/DC which, with PFC, gets me down to 60 amps
> > > > draw at less than its rated max output (225 amps output, DC).
>
> > > > It seems both could do what I need and run on my available power,
> > > > although, my outlets in the shop are 50 amp, so I may have to change
> > > > receptacles and breakers (or, at least breakers). But, the Miller rep
> > > > was at the shop I stopped at and he gave me the sales pitch on the
> > > > Shopmate 300 DX. Skip most of the tedious details and it seems like
> > > > it's the equivalent of a giant switch-mode power supply (like in our
> > > > computers). It draws less amps at max output (57 amps) and has a
> > > > higher duty cycle at 60% at 250 amps. It weighs about half as much as
> > > > the Miller or Lincoln machines I mentioned previously (testament to
> > > > that it probably is a switch-mode power supply), and can support TIG
> > > > if I choose to do that, and, according to the rep (who would probably
> > > > sell his mother for a nickel so I'm not hanging on his every word
> > > > here), it has arc characteristics that are similar to a three-phase
> > > > machine (which I've never used so how would I know three-phase
> > > > characteristics from meatloaf?). It can also support MIG, but since I
> > > > have a Millermatic 210 that I'm happy with for my light-weight stuff
> > > > that is not an attraction for me.
>
> > > > Anyway, since any one of these machines is gonna set me back about
> > > > 2,300 bucks I'd like to see what thoughts and opinions and experiences
> > > > you folks might be able to pass on to help me make a better decision;
> > > > I'd like to not spend that kind of money and hate it a few months
> > > > later.
>
> > > > Thank you for your time and information.
>
> > > > --HC
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Posted by Ernie Leimkuhler on July 2, 2008, 2:58 am
Please log in for more thread options The Dynasty 200 DX is a full fledged TIG machine with AC and DC
capability.
It is a very nice machine, but does not have near the duty cycle or
amperage output of the CST 280 in stick mode.
The Dynasty 200DX is a very nice machine, but for the heavy stick
welding you are describing, the CST 280 is superior.
I have had a Maxstar 200DX for 8 years and love it.
The Maxstar is the DC only version of the Dynasty.
If you need super portability and the widest range imaginable of input
voltages, the Maxstar and Dynasty 200's win hands down with the ability
to run on anything from 80 to 500 volts, single or 3 phase, 50 or 60
hertz.
The CST 280 is a 220/440 single or 3 phase machine.
It is primarily a Stick welder, but will do very nice DC TIG welding.
I still feel the CST 280 is the better machine for you.
In article
>
> Any thoughts, good or bad, on the other Miller "combo" units such as
> the Dynasty 200 they list under TIG machines? They claim it will do
> stick and TIG but list it under the TIG secstion of their catalog. I
> ask because, after another session in the shop today, I am wondering
> (dreaming) that maybe TIG would help me have better results on some of
> my finer welding (like hinges and door straps) and, if I'm going to
> pony up the cash to buy a new unit, I would like it to be the best it
> can be. I've welded aluminum one time only so I 'm not worried about
> needing to TIG aluminum, just mild steel. So, the CST 280 can do TIG
> but is listed under the Stick section of their catalog but the Dynasty
> 200 DX is listed under the TIG section of their catalog and can do
> Stick. Ah, who knows, I think the marketing people make it this
> confusing on purpose.
>
> :)
>
> --HC
>
> Thanks again and I don't know
>
> > In article
> >
> >
> >
> > > Hey, Ernie, thank you for your reply.
> >
> > > I looked that machine up and it sounds good to me. I like the lower
> > > power consumption over the transformer/traditional styles. It's cool
> > > that it could do some TIG work as, while I was working in the shop
> > > yesterday, I was wondering if that process might work better for some
> > > work I'm doing where I do short welds in an open area and my MIG is
> > > leaving too much metal (even with the wire speed adjusted down).
> > > Since I do all my work in the shop a generator machine isn't going to
> > > do what I need; I have extended periods of setup and then intermittent
> > > welds to make so a grid-supplied unit is ideal.
> >
> > > I'm not sure what part of the country you're in but I get my trailer
> > > kits (axle, springs, hubs, bearings, hitch, et cetera) from
> > > abctrailerparts.com in Alabama (I'm in Texas). It's a small outfit, I
> > > think just the one guy, Randy, but he's been good to take care of my
> > > orders for several years and the one time I had a problem with an axle
> > > he got it taken care of. If you contact him, tell him Hartford sent
> > > you. It won't get either of us a break on the price but it will
> > > spread goodwill with him knowing I pointed business his way.
> >
> > > Just in case you've never done it, don't use an old propane tank if
> > > you can help it. Whatever they put in those things to make the
> > > propane smell is tenacious; I cut one up to make a charcoal cooker and
> > > I took it to the car wash and pressure washed the inside (after I had
> > > it cut open) and then make my cooker from it. It still smelled bad. I
> > > had to build a couple of wood fires in it to get a coating on it and
> > > I'm not convinced that I couldn't still smell that stuff some; I never
> > > cooked on it. I did, however, not find any evidence of the "pockets
> > > of gas" that everyone around here claim remain in the tank; the
> > > propane had long since vacated the tank, it was jut the stink that was
> > > left.
> >
> > > Thanks again.
> >
> > > --HC
> >
> > The chemical is called Methyl Mercaptan.
> > It is one of the stinkiest things on earth.
> >
> > The only way I know to get rid of it is it burn it out with a BIG
> > rosebud tip.
> >
> > For the home smoker I am building the main tank is going to be a 100
> > gallon air tank.
> > The smoker I built last year at school is a 300 gallon air tank that
> > came from our air system.
> > The BIG tank at school is a 500 gallon air tank I found at the junk
> > yard for scrap price of around $180.
> >
> > > > OK to sum up you fried your little Stickmate, and would like to upgrade
> > > > to something bigger.
> > > > You have reasonably stable mains power, but not a lot of it.
> >
> > > > On the machines you list, any of the transformer machines would work,
> > > > but I would avoid the shopmate like the plague.
> > > > Miller invented that machine for schools, and that is where it should
> > > > stay.
> >
> > > > The best machine that I can recommend is the Miller CST280 inverter.
> >
> > > >http://www.millerwelds.com/products/stick/cst-280/
> >
> > > > List price is around $2300, but the real price is more like $1900.
> > > > I bought one for my school 2.5 years ago and it has been a workhorse
> > > > ever since.
> > > > Absolutely excellent stick welder, and can be used for basic TIG.
> > > > It can use a foot pedal, but does not have high freq. start, AC output,
> > > > or a gas valve.
> > > > You can use a gas valve body TIG torch and it does have lift arc start.
> > > > Aluminum up to 1/8" can be TIG welded using DC Electrode Positive, and
> > > > a very large tungsten.
> >
> > > > The best bit is the power efficiency.
> > > > It makes 6010 rod crackle with joy, and runs 7018 at a purr.
> >
> > > > At school we run it for extended periods of 180 - 210 amps output and
> > > > it has never complained once.
> >
> > > > I put it above all the transformers you listed, and also Lincoln's
> > > > comparable inverter machine, simply because Miller has inverters down
> > > > pat.
> >
> > > > You will love the portability.
> >
> > > > The other viable option would be a generator machine, but with fuel
> > > > prices soaring I am not sure how that would effect your bottom line.
> >
> > > > BTW I built a HUGE smoker/BBQ for the school from an old 300 gallon air
> > > > tank.
> > > > Works great.
> > > > I have a 500 gallon tank I am tempted to build into a trailer mounted
> > > > Smoker/BBQ.
> >
> > > > In article
> >
> > > > > Someone named/going by Steamboat Ed (steamer) read the following post
> > > > > I had put in rec.metalworking and said I should post it here and ask
> > > > > Ernie so here it is below. Thank anyone for your time. I basically
> > > > > got two responses over there and only one really tried to address my
> > > > > base question which is about a couple of machines I'm thinking of
> > > > > buying to replace my current welder.
> >
> > > > > Original post below------
> >
> > > > > Hey, all, I currently have a Hobart Stickmate 235/160 AC/DC machine
> > > > > and I am thinking of buying a larger machine; what I'd like is to know
> > > > > thoughts and opinions about what would be a good machine to get.
> >
> > > > > I mostly do hobby welding but that may include hours of continuous
> > > > > welding (I sometimes, rarely, will weld for a couple of hours non-
> > > > > stop). I build smokers and have also built metal brackets to use to
> > > > > raise my concrete foundation on my house (and lots of other projects),
> > > > > and almost all the material I weld on is 1/4 inch to 3/8 inch thick.
> > > > > Mostly I use 6010 or 6011 rods which are 1/8 inch diameter, although I
> > > > > have found a really good use for 3/16 inch diameter 6010 rods. I have
> > > > > also used 5/32 6013 and 7014, and most all of this has been done with
> > > > > DC at the maximum output of my welder, 160 amps (well, whatever it
> > > > > puts out when it's cranked up fully, nominally it is 160 amps).
> >
> > > > > I was in the middle of building 35 brackets to go under my foundation
> > > > > last year when, POP, my little Hobart went from humming along to being
> > > > > noisy as hell and it's never gotten quiet again. I'm not sure what
> > > > > changed, maybe an adjustment screw on the slider in the thing fell
> > > > > out, who knows? It gets hotter than hell (even with a 120 V, 112 CFM
> > > > > fan scabbed over a hole immediately over the rectifier in the thing).
> > > > > I don't use it all day any day, but, from time to time, I will crank
> > > > > it up and burn rods for, literally, a couple of hours. I do a fair
> > > > > amount of welding in the 90-120 amp range with 6011 rods that are 1/8
> > > > > inch diameter, and also some 7018, 6013, 7014 rods, all at 1/8 inch
> > > > > diameter at various amperages, but never anything below 75 amps.
> >
> > > > > I feel I'm asking too much, at the higher output, from my little
> > > > > machine and would like a larger one. I live in rural (sort of, we
> > > > > have a 24/7 Supercenter about 4 miles from me; how rural can it be?)
> > > > > north central Texas and my power feed from the grid is what we call
> > > > > 220 VAC, 60 Hz (but, with my RMS meter is really 250 VAC). Whatever
> > > > > it is, it is single phase and not strung between two of the grid's
> > > > > phases (208, I believe) as I have spoken to the utility to be sure.
> > > > > My shop is fed off a 100 amp breaker from the power pole and has a 100
> > > > > amp main breaker in the power panel/breaker box.
> >
> > > > > So, I started looking at the Lincoln Idealarc 250 with PFC (power
> > > > > factor correction) it can draw as much as 68 amps at 230 VAC supply (I
> > > > > presume that is what I have here as it is the closest of the voltages
> > > > > I've seen to my voltage). I looked at a comparable (sort of) Miller
> > > > > unit the Dialarc 250 AC/DC which, with PFC, gets me down to 60 amps
> > > > > draw at less than its rated max output (225 amps output, DC).
> >
> > > > > It seems both could do what I need and run on my available power,
> > > > > although, my outlets in the shop are 50 amp, so I may have to change
> > > > > receptacles and breakers (or, at least breakers). But, the Miller rep
> > > > > was at the shop I stopped at and he gave me the sales pitch on the
> > > > > Shopmate 300 DX. Skip most of the tedious details and it seems like
> > > > > it's the equivalent of a giant switch-mode power supply (like in our
> > > > > computers). It draws less amps at max output (57 amps) and has a
> > > > > higher duty cycle at 60% at 250 amps. It weighs about half as much as
> > > > > the Miller or Lincoln machines I mentioned previously (testament to
> > > > > that it probably is a switch-mode power supply), and can support TIG
> > > > > if I choose to do that, and, according to the rep (who would probably
> > > > > sell his mother for a nickel so I'm not hanging on his every word
> > > > > here), it has arc characteristics that are similar to a three-phase
> > > > > machine (which I've never used so how would I know three-phase
> > > > > characteristics from meatloaf?). It can also support MIG, but since I
> > > > > have a Millermatic 210 that I'm happy with for my light-weight stuff
> > > > > that is not an attraction for me.
> >
> > > > > Anyway, since any one of these machines is gonna set me back about
> > > > > 2,300 bucks I'd like to see what thoughts and opinions and experiences
> > > > > you folks might be able to pass on to help me make a better decision;
> > > > > I'd like to not spend that kind of money and hate it a few months
> > > > > later.
> >
> > > > > Thank you for your time and information.
> >
> > > > > --HC
>
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