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Welding Forums - Welding of materials for manufacture & repair.
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Posted by HC on July 30, 2008, 1:17 am
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>
> [snip of 300 some lines of quoted text]
>
> > Sorry, one detail, this has all been with the machine on reverse
> > polarity (electrode positive).
> > --HC
>
> Could you please snip text unnecessary to your reply? It is much nicer to
> those reading you.
Hey, Todd, sure thing. It was not my intention or desire to be rude
or exibit poor etiquette. As I personally don't mind scrolling
through others' posts (with all the history in each post) it didn't
occur to me do it differently.
--HC
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Posted by Todd Rich on July 30, 2008, 11:37 am
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(snip)
> > Could you please snip text unnecessary to your reply? It is much nicer to
> > those reading you.
> Hey, Todd, sure thing. It was not my intention or desire to be rude
> or exibit poor etiquette. As I personally don't mind scrolling
> through others' posts (with all the history in each post) it didn't
> occur to me do it differently.
> --HC
Thanks! Much appreciated. I use a shell-based newsreader and there isn't
a scroll option.
Todd
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Posted by Ernie Leimkuhler on July 29, 2008, 2:07 am
Please log in for more thread options In article
Clip
>
> Hey, Ernie, I got the CST 280 about 10 days ago but then had to spend
> 4 days out of town so I have not had much time to play with it. I am
> finishing up a smoker and have been using it on that. The first day I
> played with the welding machine I just tried my various rods on scrap;
> 6013, 6011, 6010, 7014, 7018. Everything seemed fine. However I have
> a problem now and I wanted to run it past you and the group.
>
> On the "real" welding (on the smoker) I've been using 6010 5P+ 1/8"
> rods (Lincoln Electric) and 7018 1/8" rods (Forney). On both rods I'm
> getting surface pitting and voids in my weld beads. They are somewhat
> similar to what my MIG welder does when it's run with too little or no
> shield gas. The 7018 rods are brand new out of a sealed package but
> of unknown age (purchased from a business that was closing). The 6010
> 5P+ are the same rods I've used for a couple of years from the same
> package. I have run root passes with the 6010 5P+ which are flat butt
> joints, overhead fillets, and downhill fillets. I have run caps over
> both the 6010 5P+ and my wire welding with the 7018. The worst I've
> seen was yesterday while welding up a stick of 2" x 2" x 1/4" angle
> vertically onto a piece of 1/4 inch steel. I was welding the inside
> curve of the angle and it should have been easy but at the end of the
> weld (where the angle and the base piece terminated) I got a spongy-
> looking mess, very reminiscent of a poor MIG weld. Sometimes I even
> get a little "egg" growing on top of the welds at the end, similar to
> when I run my MIG welder with too little shield gas. And finally, I
> have noticed with the 6010 5P+ I am having the arc blow out to the
> side and not remain constant from the tip of the stick.
>
> All of this has been done on 1/4 inch thick mild steel. I have been
> running the 6010 5P+ at about 90 amps in the XX10 Stiff setting, and
> the 7018's in the XX18 Soft setting. I could hook up my old Hobart
> welder for comparison but I used the cables from it on the new
> Miller. But I never remember having problems like this with my old
> Hobart. Could it be the CST 280? I wouldn't think so, it's just a
> power supply but what do I know?
>
> Thanks for your time and any advice.
>
> --HC
90 amps is a bit low for 1/8" 6010, but doable I suppose.
Lincoln 5P+ is the best 6010 I have used.
Have you checked your rods for rust?
Depending on how old and how they are stored, the wire could have
rusted inside the flux.
Just bend one into a U and look at the wire where the flux peels off.
6010 should never be baked as it needs moisture to work right.
Forney 7018 is crap, sorry, but it is.
Even Murex is better and that is crap too.
If you want good 7018 buy Lincoln Excalibur.
Lovely stuff, just keep it dry dry dry.
I have seen similar things to what you describe, but only when dealing
with painted objects or when welding against wood.
When you stop welding the still hot puddle reacts to contaminants on or
near the metal and gets porosity.
The power supply would have no effect on weld contamination.
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Posted by HC on July 30, 2008, 1:12 am
Please log in for more thread options
>
> > Hey, Ernie, I got the CST 280 about 10 days ago but then had to spend
> > 4 days out of town so I have not had much time to play with it. =A0I am
> > finishing up a smoker and have been using it on that. =A0The first day =
I
> > played with the welding machine I just tried my various rods on scrap;
> > 6013, 6011, 6010, 7014, 7018. =A0Everything seemed fine. =A0However I h=
ave
> > a problem now and I wanted to run it past you and the group.
>
> > On the "real" welding (on the smoker) I've been using 6010 5P+ 1/8"
> > rods (Lincoln Electric) and 7018 1/8" rods (Forney). =A0On both rods I'=
m
> > getting surface pitting and voids in my weld beads. =A0They are somewha=
t
> > similar to what my MIG welder does when it's run with too little or no
> > shield gas. =A0The 7018 rods are brand new out of a sealed package but
> > of unknown age (purchased from a business that was closing). =A0The 601=
0
> > 5P+ are the same rods I've used for a couple of years from the same
> > package. =A0I have run root passes with the 6010 5P+ which are flat but=
t
> > joints, overhead fillets, and downhill fillets. =A0I have run caps over
> > both the 6010 5P+ and my wire welding with the 7018. =A0The worst I've
> > seen was yesterday while welding up a stick of 2" x 2" x 1/4" angle
> > vertically onto a piece of 1/4 inch steel. =A0I was welding the inside
> > curve of the angle and it should have been easy but at the end of the
> > weld (where the angle and the base piece terminated) I got a spongy-
> > looking mess, very reminiscent of a poor MIG weld. =A0Sometimes I even
> > get a little "egg" growing on top of the welds at the end, similar to
> > when I run my MIG welder with too little shield gas. =A0And finally, I
> > have noticed with the 6010 5P+ I am having the arc blow out to the
> > side and not remain constant from the tip of the stick.
>
> > All of this has been done on 1/4 inch thick mild steel. =A0I have been
> > running the 6010 5P+ at about 90 amps in the XX10 Stiff setting, and
> > the 7018's in the XX18 Soft setting. =A0I could hook up my old Hobart
> > welder for comparison but I used the cables from it on the new
> > Miller. =A0But I never remember having problems like this with my old
> > Hobart. =A0Could it be the CST 280? =A0I wouldn't think so, it's just a
> > power supply but what do I know?
>
> > Thanks for your time and any advice.
>
> > --HC
>
> 90 amps is a bit low for 1/8" 6010, but doable I suppose.
>
> Lincoln 5P+ is the best 6010 I have used.
> Have you checked your rods for rust?
> Depending on how old and how they are stored, the wire could have
> rusted inside the flux.
> Just bend one into a U and look at the wire where the flux peels off.
>
> 6010 should never be baked as it needs moisture to work right.
>
> Forney 7018 is crap, sorry, but it is.
> Even Murex is better and that is crap too.
> If you want good 7018 buy Lincoln Excalibur.
> Lovely stuff, just keep it dry dry dry.
>
> I have seen similar things to what you describe, but only when dealing
> with painted objects or when welding against wood.
> When you stop welding the still hot puddle reacts to contaminants on or
> near the metal and gets porosity.
>
> The power supply would have no effect on weld contamination.- Hide quoted=
text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
Thank you, Ernie, for your reply. Your comment about the 6010 being
"doable" at 90 amps indicates it might be too low. My reading online
had (and I double checked, now) indicated that 75 to 125 amps was the
range for that rod. Should I be running that higher in the range of
75 to 125 amps?
I have not checked the rods for rust. I have used the same rods on
both the Hobart (old) welding machine and the Miller CST 280 (new)
welding machine. I will check the rods for rust per your
instructions. Also, I have some extra quick connects (Tweco-style, I
think, but, regardless, I can make a doable setup) and an extra
electrode holder and ground clamp which I will hook up this Friday if
my schedule will allow it and I am going to do some head-to-head
between the CST 280 and the old Hobart; I will feel better seeing
their results side by side. I won't feel better until I see that the
new machine welds as well or better than the old one. Yes, I am
obsessive. :(
I have been cooking the 6010's in my kitchen oven some (not this
current batch) because they were given to me and came in an opened
package and I feared they might have taken on moisture. Based on your
information here I will not do that anymore.
This is my first batch of Forney 7018's. Previously I was using
Hobart 7018's. I only, as I posted, got the Forney stuff because it
was cheap from a place closing the business. I will see if my local
shop has some Lincoln 7018's. I have rod storage tubes which should
help keep them dry.
What I'm taking from what you are saying is that ONLY weld
contamination would cause the porosity, voids, or similar failures in
my weldments. Therefore, as you say, the power supply would be a non-
issue.
I know I'm being uptight about this and panicky, but I'm sitting here
with about 2k paid out and uncertain of the cause of my problems and
nervous. It's just me. Thank you for your time, help, and patience.
--HC
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Posted by Ernie Leimkuhler on July 31, 2008, 10:46 pm
Please log in for more thread options In article
> >
> > > Hey, Ernie, I got the CST 280 about 10 days ago but then had to spend
> > > 4 days out of town so I have not had much time to play with it. I am
> > > finishing up a smoker and have been using it on that. The first day I
> > > played with the welding machine I just tried my various rods on scrap;
> > > 6013, 6011, 6010, 7014, 7018. Everything seemed fine. However I have
> > > a problem now and I wanted to run it past you and the group.
> >
> > > On the "real" welding (on the smoker) I've been using 6010 5P+ 1/8"
> > > rods (Lincoln Electric) and 7018 1/8" rods (Forney). On both rods I'm
> > > getting surface pitting and voids in my weld beads. They are somewhat
> > > similar to what my MIG welder does when it's run with too little or no
> > > shield gas. The 7018 rods are brand new out of a sealed package but
> > > of unknown age (purchased from a business that was closing). The 6010
> > > 5P+ are the same rods I've used for a couple of years from the same
> > > package. I have run root passes with the 6010 5P+ which are flat butt
> > > joints, overhead fillets, and downhill fillets. I have run caps over
> > > both the 6010 5P+ and my wire welding with the 7018. The worst I've
> > > seen was yesterday while welding up a stick of 2" x 2" x 1/4" angle
> > > vertically onto a piece of 1/4 inch steel. I was welding the inside
> > > curve of the angle and it should have been easy but at the end of the
> > > weld (where the angle and the base piece terminated) I got a spongy-
> > > looking mess, very reminiscent of a poor MIG weld. Sometimes I even
> > > get a little "egg" growing on top of the welds at the end, similar to
> > > when I run my MIG welder with too little shield gas. And finally, I
> > > have noticed with the 6010 5P+ I am having the arc blow out to the
> > > side and not remain constant from the tip of the stick.
> >
> > > All of this has been done on 1/4 inch thick mild steel. I have been
> > > running the 6010 5P+ at about 90 amps in the XX10 Stiff setting, and
> > > the 7018's in the XX18 Soft setting. I could hook up my old Hobart
> > > welder for comparison but I used the cables from it on the new
> > > Miller. But I never remember having problems like this with my old
> > > Hobart. Could it be the CST 280? I wouldn't think so, it's just a
> > > power supply but what do I know?
> >
> > > Thanks for your time and any advice.
> >
> > > --HC
> >
> > 90 amps is a bit low for 1/8" 6010, but doable I suppose.
> >
> > Lincoln 5P+ is the best 6010 I have used.
> > Have you checked your rods for rust?
> > Depending on how old and how they are stored, the wire could have
> > rusted inside the flux.
> > Just bend one into a U and look at the wire where the flux peels off.
> >
> > 6010 should never be baked as it needs moisture to work right.
> >
> > Forney 7018 is crap, sorry, but it is.
> > Even Murex is better and that is crap too.
> > If you want good 7018 buy Lincoln Excalibur.
> > Lovely stuff, just keep it dry dry dry.
> >
> > I have seen similar things to what you describe, but only when dealing
> > with painted objects or when welding against wood.
> > When you stop welding the still hot puddle reacts to contaminants on or
> > near the metal and gets porosity.
> >
> > The power supply would have no effect on weld contamination.- Hide quoted
> > text -
> >
> > - Show quoted text -
>
>
> Thank you, Ernie, for your reply. Your comment about the 6010 being
> "doable" at 90 amps indicates it might be too low. My reading online
> had (and I double checked, now) indicated that 75 to 125 amps was the
> range for that rod. Should I be running that higher in the range of
> 75 to 125 amps?
>
I would say between 105 and 125 is a better range, for 1/8" rod.
I usually run it around 110.
> I have not checked the rods for rust. I have used the same rods on
> both the Hobart (old) welding machine and the Miller CST 280 (new)
> welding machine. I will check the rods for rust per your
> instructions. Also, I have some extra quick connects (Tweco-style, I
> think, but, regardless, I can make a doable setup) and an extra
> electrode holder and ground clamp which I will hook up this Friday if
> my schedule will allow it and I am going to do some head-to-head
> between the CST 280 and the old Hobart; I will feel better seeing
> their results side by side. I won't feel better until I see that the
> new machine welds as well or better than the old one. Yes, I am
> obsessive. :(
>
> I have been cooking the 6010's in my kitchen oven some (not this
> current batch) because they were given to me and came in an opened
> package and I feared they might have taken on moisture. Based on your
> information here I will not do that anymore.
>
> This is my first batch of Forney 7018's. Previously I was using
> Hobart 7018's. I only, as I posted, got the Forney stuff because it
> was cheap from a place closing the business. I will see if my local
> shop has some Lincoln 7018's. I have rod storage tubes which should
> help keep them dry.
>
Leave some room in the tube and add uncooked rice.
It will help absorb any moisture that does get into the tube.
> What I'm taking from what you are saying is that ONLY weld
> contamination would cause the porosity, voids, or similar failures in
> my weldments. Therefore, as you say, the power supply would be a non-
> issue.
>
> I know I'm being uptight about this and panicky, but I'm sitting here
> with about 2k paid out and uncertain of the cause of my problems and
> nervous. It's just me. Thank you for your time, help, and patience.
>
> --HC
>
Try running some better rods on clean metal.
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> [snip of 300 some lines of quoted text]
>