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Posted by HC on July 8, 2008, 7:37 pm
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Hmmm, I had replied to this earlier today but I do not see my post.
I'm sorry if this shows up twice.
Ernie, thank you for your reply and I'm sorry for the delay in mine.
The local Airgas shop is being slow to respond to my queries about the
TIG equipment and is trying to sell me a Weldcraft WP-17-V-12-2
claiming that is what Miller sells with their TIG machines. I can get
a similar one, the 25 foot model, for a little less than that online.
I contacted Weldcraft and they do have a gas lens for that torch (I've
done a little reading on what one is and does and it sounds cool; I
will read more later but I am in the middle of my projects and only
came in for a moment to check the thread).
I contacted CK and got a list of distributors I can speak with who
carry their products (other than Airgas) so that if you are against
the Weldcraft I can maybe find someone more responsive to my questions
than the local Airgas guy.
I found a Victor tube-and-ball style regulator, it's a HRF1425-580 but
I cannot find it on their site (any of the HRF1400 series
regulators). I found them online for about 100 bucks. I have a
bottle of argon (which I believe is the right gas) that I have on my
MIG machine for aluminum on the spoolgun; since I rarely weld aluminum
I can just yank the twin-dial regulator off that bottle and put that
Victor on.
My desire, currently, for the TIG process is two weldments on the
smokers; the hinge pins for the doors and the hinges to the body of
the smoker. The hinge pins are 9/16 inch hot-rolled steel and I pass
them through 19/32 inch holes drilled into 1/4 inch mild steel. This
leaves a very small gap but insures that they pass through easily and
I sandwich three pieces of the 1/4 inch together, one to the lid, two
to the body of the smoker. I then weld that little gap up on the pins
to the smoker body. I use my MIG for that but as the gap is so small
I wind up, even with the wire speed low, a lot of filler metal left so
it looks like a donut stuck on the side of the hinge. I hate grinding
that off and I was thinking that I could use the TIG to make a
autogenous (I've been reading on Wikipedia.com) weldment there and it
might mean I don't have to grind off my welds (I don't like the work
but, even more, I don't like the look of ground-off welds). The
second weldment is where the hinge pieces contact the smoker tube and
the lid. The materials are perpendicular to one another and are both
of 1/4 inch mild steel or slightly thicker and I use the MIG there,
too, but I wind up welding over tacks and doubling up at the top and
the bottom as I weld both sides and I thought maybe TIG'ing that would
make it look better, especially important since they're so conspicuous
on these smokers.
With that in mind, what size electrodes should I buy? I used to know
a guy who had some scab-on TIG unit and I watched him use it a couple
of times and when he'd stick the electrode he'd pull it out of the
torch and chuck it up in a drill and run the drill and hold the
electrode tip against an abrasive wheel on a running grinder; my
reading (only done lately as I have been considering this machine
(thank you)) causes me to think that is not a good way to sharpen a
tungsten electrode (seems it would contaminate it). I see electrode
grinders for about a grand and I see some "chemical sharpener". I
can't spend a grand on a machine to grind tungstens I'll use about 1
time per month, so what should I do about caring for the electrodes?
I have a guy in oilfield services who told me yesterday that he is
coming to see me with the owner of the company who he has told about
my last smoker which he saw. He claims he told the owner how great it
was and blah blah blah and they're bringing me a check for a down
payment on one that I am currently about to complete. If that
actually happens and they're not just a couple of blow-hards, then
this machine will happen as soon as the check clears. If not, then it
won't happen until I actually do sell at least one of the smokers.
Okay, underwater welding. Let's see, diving is dangerous (how many of
even Jaques Cousteau's kids died doing that?) And welding is
dangerous. And electricity and water don't mix. So, basically, you
train people to jump in the middle of two dangerous tasks with
additional risks of doing those tasks at the same time. I'm
impressed. I would think that would be the welding equivalent of
being a rock star. I've never been diving but I'm not a complete
idiot and I know a few things like it's dangerous because you can run
out of air, you can get trapped under or in something, you can go too
deep and, without sufficient reserve air, not have enough air to re-
surface with the necessary decompression stops and get the bends (see
above about Jaques Cousteau's kid(s)), and that's just the beginning
(leave out all the maintaing all that gear). I'm trying to think what
it would be like trying to do all that *and* weld. You are a better
man than I, Gunga Din.
It's good to have a variety of skillsets. Science fiction author
Robert A. Heinlein is quoted as saying (I had to look this up): "A
human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion,
butcher a hog, con a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance
accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders,
give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyse a new
problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight
efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects."
What kind of cooking?
Thank you again for your help and advice and time.
--HC
> In article
>
> > Hey, Ernie, any recommendations on what hardwareI should buy to run
> > TIG from this machine?
>
> Air cooled... CK210 valve body torch, from CK Worldwide.
> Water cooled... CK230 Flex-head valve body torch.
> You will need a flow-gauge for the argon bottle.
> Smith ball-and-tube flow gauges are the best, but not the most compact.
> Victor and Western make more compact versions, but stick with a
> ball-and-tube type.
> Gas lens collet bodies, and Lanthanated tungstens.
>
> > Which, if I may ask, school to you teach for and what area of the
> > country is it located in?
>
> > --HC
>
> I am the Topside Welding Instructor for the Divers Institute of
> Technology in Seattle, WA.
>
> www.diversinstitute.com
>
> Topside means I teach them to weld when they are NOT in the water.
>
> We train commercial divers, mostly for the petroleum industry, but
> there is also a lot of inland work in ports, bridges, piers, dams,
> powerplants, reservoirs...
>
> I am also a Certified Weld Inspector, Non-Destructive Testing
> instructor, and a very serious cook.
>
>
>
> > > The =A0Dynasty 200 DX is a full fledged TIG machine with AC and DC
> > > capability.
> > > It is a very nice machine, but does not have near the duty cycle or
> > > amperage output of the CST 280 in stick mode.
>
> > > The Dynasty 200DX is a very nice machine, but for the heavy stick
> > > welding you are describing, the CST 280 is superior.
> > > I have had a Maxstar 200DX for 8 years and love it.
> > > The Maxstar is the DC only version of the Dynasty.
> > > If you need super portability and the widest range imaginable of inpu=
t
> > > voltages, the Maxstar and Dynasty 200's win hands down with the abili=
ty
> > > to run on anything from 80 to 500 volts, single or 3 phase, 50 or 60
> > > hertz.
> > > The CST 280 is a 220/440 single or 3 phase machine.
> > > It is primarily a Stick welder, but will do very nice DC TIG welding.
>
> > > I still feel the CST 280 is the better machine for you.
>
> > > In article
HC
>
>
> > > > Any thoughts, good or bad, on the other Miller "combo" units such a=
s
> > > > the Dynasty 200 they list under TIG machines? =A0They claim it will=
do
> > > > stick and TIG but list it under the TIG secstion of their catalog. =
=A0I
> > > > ask because, after another session in the shop today, I am wonderin=
g
> > > > (dreaming) that maybe TIG would help me have better results on some=
of
> > > > my finer welding (like hinges and door straps) and, if I'm going to
> > > > pony up the cash to buy a new unit, I would like it to be the best =
it
> > > > can be. =A0I've welded aluminum one time only so I 'm not worried a=
bout
> > > > needing to TIG aluminum, just mild steel. =A0So, the CST 280 can do=
TIG
> > > > but is listed under the Stick section of their catalog but the Dyna=
sty
> > > > 200 DX is listed under the TIG section of their catalog and can do
> > > > Stick. =A0 Ah, who knows, I think the marketing people make it this
> > > > confusing on purpose.
>
> > > > :)
>
> > > > --HC
>
> > > > Thanks again and I don't know
>
> > > > > In article
> > > > > <db3333f9-7ab7-4113-9464-cfaade0e6...@27g2000hsf.googlegroups.com=
>, HC
>
> > > > > > Hey, Ernie, thank you for your reply.
>
> > > > > > I looked that machine up and it sounds good to me. =A0I like th=
e lower
> > > > > > power consumption over the transformer/traditional styles. =A0I=
t's cool
> > > > > > that it could do some TIG work as, while I was working in the s=
hop
> > > > > > yesterday, I was wondering if that process might work better fo=
r some
> > > > > > work I'm doing where I do short welds in an open area and my MI=
G is
> > > > > > leaving too much metal (even with the wire speed adjusted down)=
.
> > > > > > Since I do all my work in the shop a generator machine isn't go=
ing to
> > > > > > do what I need; I have extended periods of setup and then inter=
mittent
> > > > > > welds to make so a grid-supplied unit is ideal.
>
> > > > > > I'm not sure what part of the country you're in but I get my tr=
ailer
> > > > > > kits (axle, springs, hubs, bearings, hitch, et cetera) from
> > > > > > abctrailerparts.com in Alabama (I'm in Texas). =A0It's a small =
outfit, I
> > > > > > think just the one guy, Randy, but he's been good to take care =
of my
> > > > > > orders for several years and the one time I had a problem with =
an axle
> > > > > > he got it taken care of. =A0If you contact him, tell him Hartfo=
rd sent
> > > > > > you. =A0It won't get either of us a break on the price but it w=
ill
> > > > > > spread goodwill with him knowing I pointed business his way.
>
> > > > > > Just in case you've never done it, don't use an old propane tan=
k if
> > > > > > you can help it. =A0Whatever they put in those things to make t=
he
> > > > > > propane smell is tenacious; I cut one up to make a charcoal coo=
ker and
> > > > > > I took it to the car wash and pressure washed the inside (after=
I had
> > > > > > it cut open) and then make my cooker from it. =A0It still smell=
ed bad. I
> > > > > > had to build a couple of wood fires in it to get a coating on i=
t and
> > > > > > I'm not convinced that I couldn't still smell that stuff some; =
I never
> > > > > > cooked on it. =A0I did, however, not find any evidence of the "=
pockets
> > > > > > of gas" that everyone around here claim remain in the tank; the
> > > > > > propane had long since vacated the tank, it was jut the stink t=
hat was
> > > > > > left.
>
> > > > > > Thanks again.
>
> > > > > > --HC
>
> > > > > The chemical is called Methyl Mercaptan.
> > > > > It is one of the stinkiest things on earth.
>
> > > > > The only way I know to get rid of it is it burn it out with a BIG
> > > > > rosebud tip.
>
> > > > > For the home smoker I am building the main tank is going to be a =
100
> > > > > gallon air tank.
> > > > > The smoker I built last year at school is a 300 gallon air tank t=
hat
> > > > > came from our air system.
> > > > > The BIG tank at school is a 500 gallon air tank I found at the ju=
nk
> > > > > yard for scrap price of around $180.
>
ote:
> > > > > > > OK to sum up you fried your little Stickmate, and would like =
to
> > > > > > > upgrade
> > > > > > > to something bigger.
> > > > > > > You have reasonably stable mains power, but not a lot of it.
>
> > > > > > > On the machines you list, any of the transformer machines wou=
ld
> > > > > > > work,
> > > > > > > but I would avoid the shopmate like the plague.
> > > > > > > Miller invented that machine for schools, and that is where i=
t
> > > > > > > should
> > > > > > > stay.
>
> > > > > > > The best machine that I can recommend is the Miller CST280 in=
verter.
>
> > > > > > >http://www.millerwelds.com/products/stick/cst-280/
>
> > > > > > > List price is around $2300, but the real price is more like $=
1900.
> > > > > > > I bought one for my school 2.5 years ago and it has been a wo=
rkhorse
> > > > > > > ever since.
> > > > > > > Absolutely excellent stick welder, and can be used for basic =
TIG.
> > > > > > > It can use a foot pedal, but does not have high freq. start, =
AC
> > > > > > > output,
> > > > > > > or a gas valve.
> > > > > > > You can use a gas valve body TIG torch and it does have lift =
arc
> > > > > > > start.
> > > > > > > Aluminum up to 1/8" can be TIG welded using DC Electrode Posi=
tive,
> > > > > > > and
> > > > > > > a very large tungsten.
>
> > > > > > > The best bit is the power efficiency.
> > > > > > > It makes 6010 rod crackle with joy, and runs 7018 at a purr.
>
> > > > > > > At school we run it for extended periods of 180 - 210 amps ou=
tput
> > > > > > > and
> > > > > > > it has never complained once.
>
> > > > > > > I put it above all the transformers you listed, and also Linc=
oln's
> > > > > > > comparable inverter machine, simply because Miller has invert=
ers
> > > > > > > down
> > > > > > > pat.
>
> > > > > > > You will love the portability.
>
> > > > > > > The other viable option would be a generator machine, but wit=
h fuel
> > > > > > > prices soaring I am not sure how that would effect your botto=
m line.
>
> > > > > > > BTW I built a HUGE smoker/BBQ for the school from an old 300 =
gallon
> > > > > > > air
> > > > > > > tank.
> > > > > > > Works great.
> > > > > > > I have a 500 gallon tank I am tempted to build into a trailer
> > > > > > > mounted
> > > > > > > Smoker/BBQ.
>
> > > > > > > In article
> > > > > > > <cfba7f53-52b1-4642-bdc0-7bb635da0...@8g2000hse.googlegroups.=
com>,
> > > > > > > HC
>
> > > > > > > > Someone named/going by Steamboat Ed (steamer) read the foll=
owing
> > > > > > > > post
> > > > > > > > I had put in rec.metalworking and said I should post it her=
e and
> > > > > > > > ask
> > > > > > > > Ernie so here it is below. =A0Thank anyone for your time. =
=A0I
> > > > > > > > basically
> > > > > > > > got two responses over there and only one really tried to a=
ddress
> > > > > > > > my
> > > > > > > > base question which is about a couple of machines I'm think=
ing of
> > > > > > > > buying to replace my current welder.
>
> > > > > > > > Original post below------
>
> > > > > > > > Hey, all, I currently have a Hobart Stickmate 235/160 AC/DC
> > > > > > > > machine
> > > > > > > > and I am thinking of buying a larger machine; what I'd like=
is to
> > > > > > > > know
> > > > > > > > thoughts and opinions about what would be a good machine to=
get.
>
> > > > > > > > I mostly do hobby welding but that may include hours of con=
tinuous
> > > > > > > > welding (I sometimes, rarely, will weld for a couple of hou=
rs non-
> > > > > > > > stop). =A0I build smokers and have also built metal bracket=
s to use
> > > > > > > > to
> > > > > > > > raise my concrete foundation on my house (and lots of other
> > > > > > > > projects),
> > > > > > > > and almost all the material I weld on is 1/4 inch to 3/8 in=
ch
> > > > > > > > thick.
> > > > > > > > Mostly I use 6010 or 6011 rods which are 1/8 inch diameter,
>
> ...
>
> read more =BB- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
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