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Posted by Ecnerwal on May 19, 2008, 10:14 pm
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> How do you all determine what to charge someone for welding work?
>
> I have someone that wants me to weld some new floor pans into their
> Jeep.
>
> I will have to cut the old ones out, fit the new ones, and weld them
> up. He will bring the Jeep to my shop.
>
> Where does a newbie start?
Be very careful to charge enough, or you'll end up losing money. How
much that matters depends on how much this is now your job, or is a
sideline, but it still sucks to lose money, or "make" all of 50 cents
per hour.
Are you adequately educated about welding around cars (gas tanks and
fuel lines, particularly) to take this one on? Are you going to be
adequately insured? Folks get away with neither often enough, and then
again they don't get away with it, sometimes.
Figure the stunning hourly rate you'd like to pay yourself.
Now add self employment tax on top of that (7.5% or so). If you are
going to get all dimwitted at tax time, add the cost of an accountant
here, but not being dimwitted is a good thing in more ways than one. You
do need to keep records, but it's not very complicated.
Cost of power and consumables to do work. Electricity, gas, wire or
electrodes, grinder wheels, brushes, respirator cartridges, etc...
Cost of equipment (spread across work for lifetime of equipment) -
welders, grinders, leathers, mask, gloves...
Cost of the shop space (rent or purchase price spread over lifetime of
building). Also operating cost of the building (heating, water, anything
of that sort not included as a consumable).
Cost of insurance (homeowner's often specifically does not cover doing
work at home - plus you may want liability coverage for work done.) Are
you covered if you get hurt while working? Are you covered if a thing
you weld fails and others get hurt?
Fudge factor for costs you forget (ie, gas to run the truck down to the
welding store and pick up more stuff, ads to get more business)
If you run the numbers and your reaction is "that's way too much", ask
yourself some dumb questions like "what does my car mechanic charge" -
in my case, that was $65/hour the last time I had work done, and might
well be $75 today. The mechanics don't take that much home, but the
*business* needs to charge that much in order to be able to stay in
business and pay the mechanics - and THAT (running a business, not just
collecting wages) is where you are operating when you start doing work
for other people.
--
Cats, coffee, chocolate...vices to live by
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Posted by Ivan Vegvary on May 22, 2008, 2:52 am
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>
>> How do you all determine what to charge someone for welding work?
>>
>> I have someone that wants me to weld some new floor pans into their
>> Jeep.
>>
>> I will have to cut the old ones out, fit the new ones, and weld them
>> up. He will bring the Jeep to my shop.
>>
>> Where does a newbie start?
>
> Be very careful to charge enough, or you'll end up losing money. How
> much that matters depends on how much this is now your job, or is a
> sideline, but it still sucks to lose money, or "make" all of 50 cents
> per hour.
>
> Are you adequately educated about welding around cars (gas tanks and
> fuel lines, particularly) to take this one on? Are you going to be
> adequately insured? Folks get away with neither often enough, and then
> again they don't get away with it, sometimes.
>
> Figure the stunning hourly rate you'd like to pay yourself.
>
> Now add self employment tax on top of that (7.5% or so). If you are
If you are self employed you pay double that amount for social security.
e.g. 15%.
You don't have an employer (that's you) to pay the other half.
Ivan Vegvary
> going to get all dimwitted at tax time, add the cost of an accountant
> here, but not being dimwitted is a good thing in more ways than one. You
> do need to keep records, but it's not very complicated.
>
> Cost of power and consumables to do work. Electricity, gas, wire or
> electrodes, grinder wheels, brushes, respirator cartridges, etc...
>
> Cost of equipment (spread across work for lifetime of equipment) -
> welders, grinders, leathers, mask, gloves...
>
> Cost of the shop space (rent or purchase price spread over lifetime of
> building). Also operating cost of the building (heating, water, anything
> of that sort not included as a consumable).
>
> Cost of insurance (homeowner's often specifically does not cover doing
> work at home - plus you may want liability coverage for work done.) Are
> you covered if you get hurt while working? Are you covered if a thing
> you weld fails and others get hurt?
>
> Fudge factor for costs you forget (ie, gas to run the truck down to the
> welding store and pick up more stuff, ads to get more business)
>
> If you run the numbers and your reaction is "that's way too much", ask
> yourself some dumb questions like "what does my car mechanic charge" -
> in my case, that was $65/hour the last time I had work done, and might
> well be $75 today. The mechanics don't take that much home, but the
> *business* needs to charge that much in order to be able to stay in
> business and pay the mechanics - and THAT (running a business, not just
> collecting wages) is where you are operating when you start doing work
> for other people.
>
> --
> Cats, coffee, chocolate...vices to live by
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Posted by Ecnerwal on May 22, 2008, 12:02 pm
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> > Now add self employment tax on top of that (7.5% or so). If you are
> If you are self employed you pay double that amount for social security.
> e.g. 15%.
> You don't have an employer (that's you) to pay the other half.
However, when _comparing to a job for an employer_, you only pay 7.5%
_more_ as a self-employed person - the first 7.5% you pay either way, so
it's the same if you get paid $20/hour or contract for $20/hour - but
the extra 7.5% applies if you contract, so (for just the self-employment
tax piece) you need to contract for $21.50 to get paid the same as a
wage-slave at $20. And then there are all the other pieces, some rather
large.
--
Cats, coffee, chocolate...vices to live by
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Posted by RoyJ on May 22, 2008, 12:42 pm
Please log in for more thread options Some of the 'large' pieces are purely in your head. Convincing my wife
that those checks she gets from clients are not all hers to spend takes
some real discipline.
Ecnerwal wrote:
>
>
>>> Now add self employment tax on top of that (7.5% or so). If you are
>
>
>> If you are self employed you pay double that amount for social security.
>> e.g. 15%.
>> You don't have an employer (that's you) to pay the other half.
>
> However, when _comparing to a job for an employer_, you only pay 7.5%
> _more_ as a self-employed person - the first 7.5% you pay either way, so
> it's the same if you get paid $20/hour or contract for $20/hour - but
> the extra 7.5% applies if you contract, so (for just the self-employment
> tax piece) you need to contract for $21.50 to get paid the same as a
> wage-slave at $20. And then there are all the other pieces, some rather
> large.
>
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Posted by Maxwell on May 22, 2008, 7:37 pm
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> Some of the 'large' pieces are purely in your head. Convincing my wife
> that those checks she gets from clients are not all hers to spend takes
> some real discipline.
>
That's a fact. Requires more math to correctly split the take, than it does
to figure the job.
There is a lot of good folks still making monthly payments to the IRS, long
after they have had to close their doors. Manage it wisely.
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>
> I have someone that wants me to weld some new floor pans into their
> Jeep.
>
> I will have to cut the old ones out, fit the new ones, and weld them
> up. He will bring the Jeep to my shop.
>
> Where does a newbie start?