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Posted by Maxwell on February 14, 2008, 1:05 pm
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> I'm not sure why I picked MIG as the first welder I would buy. Might
> have been the illusion that I could get into it for $100 and move up
> from there. [I'm over that.]
>
> I've looked into going to classes, which I'm sure would be the best
> option if I could do it. But I have a bit of a disability that only
> allows me a few hours a day of activity. If I don't overdo those I
> get several more hours of 'sit-down' time where I can read and learn.
> So I decided to teach myself with the help of the internet and a pile
> of books.
>
> Well- a few months later, I learned a little about MIG- decided on a
> Lincoln/Miller 140amp setup. . . . found some forums to read. . .
> bought a couple books. . .and started shopping for a good price-
>
> Noted an offhand comment on one forum where a newbie was showing off
> his new MIG setup and an 'oldie' said 'now you need to get some O/A
> torches'.
>
> The first book I'm reading is Finch's "Welder's Handbook". He makes
> no bones about it. in his opinion everyone who wants to weld should
> start out with O/A. His feeling is that it helps you understand the
> process because you are more in touch with the puddle.
>
> So now as I look at O/A setups and think I could get a decent setup
> for about the same $550-600 as I'm getting ready to spend on MIG, I
> wonder if that isn't the way to go.
>
> O/A has the advantage of being a cutting tool, and 'hot wrench', as
> well as heating metals to be formed. [and I just started reading
> Finch's chapter on brazing and soldering-- is O/A more flexible in the
> 'what you can join' department?]
>
> MIG has the [apparent] advantage of being easy to learn. Since
> I'm in this as much for 'the journey' as anything else, a steeper
> learning curve is fine.
>
> I'm leaning towards O/A now. Any pushes in one direction or the
> other?
>
> Jim
> [For the googlers and to show off my spell checker; oxy-acetylene,
> acetylene ]
> Thanks,
> Jim
I think it depends more on the scope of work you intend accomplish in both
the short and long term, and how many processes you intend to own in the
long term.
If you plan to work clean thin materials, cold finished materials, store
your materials indoors, and do most of your cutting with saws, the MIG is
probably the best choice.
If you need to work thicker materials, hot finished materials, used
materials or materials that are most often stored outdoors, you might want
the O/A system, then a stick welding machine first. Then you would have gas
cutting, O/A welding for thin materials, and stick for thicker items. Just
keep in mind that all O/A welding, especially on thicker materials, is very
slow going compared to MIG or stick welding. In my experience O/A welding is
almost always limited to materials less than 1/8" thick.
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Posted by SteveB on February 14, 2008, 1:15 pm
Please log in for more thread options
> I'm not sure why I picked MIG as the first welder I would buy. Might
> have been the illusion that I could get into it for $100 and move up
> from there. [I'm over that.]
>
> I've looked into going to classes, which I'm sure would be the best
> option if I could do it. But I have a bit of a disability that only
> allows me a few hours a day of activity. If I don't overdo those I
> get several more hours of 'sit-down' time where I can read and learn.
> So I decided to teach myself with the help of the internet and a pile
> of books.
>
> Well- a few months later, I learned a little about MIG- decided on a
> Lincoln/Miller 140amp setup. . . . found some forums to read. . .
> bought a couple books. . .and started shopping for a good price-
>
> Noted an offhand comment on one forum where a newbie was showing off
> his new MIG setup and an 'oldie' said 'now you need to get some O/A
> torches'.
>
> The first book I'm reading is Finch's "Welder's Handbook". He makes
> no bones about it. in his opinion everyone who wants to weld should
> start out with O/A. His feeling is that it helps you understand the
> process because you are more in touch with the puddle.
>
> So now as I look at O/A setups and think I could get a decent setup
> for about the same $550-600 as I'm getting ready to spend on MIG, I
> wonder if that isn't the way to go.
>
> O/A has the advantage of being a cutting tool, and 'hot wrench', as
> well as heating metals to be formed. [and I just started reading
> Finch's chapter on brazing and soldering-- is O/A more flexible in the
> 'what you can join' department?]
>
> MIG has the [apparent] advantage of being easy to learn. Since
> I'm in this as much for 'the journey' as anything else, a steeper
> learning curve is fine.
>
> I'm leaning towards O/A now. Any pushes in one direction or the
> other?
>
> Jim
> [For the googlers and to show off my spell checker; oxy-acetylene,
> acetylene ]
> Thanks,
> Jim
Shop around. I bought a Victor 315 cutting torch, two Victor regulators and
50' of hose for $50. Welding tips are around ten to fifteen bucks apiece,
but those can be had cheaper at yard sales, etc. Yes, if you want to go buy
new in box, figure to spend around $500, have everything, and have it last
for a long time.
It is good you decided to go with a new Miller machine, as you cannot get a
decent one for the price you wanted to pay unless you snagged a good used
one. And then, it probably would have been hot.
But it all depends on how much welding you will do. No need to spend a
bundle and weld once a month.
Steve
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Posted by Grant Erwin on February 14, 2008, 1:38 pm
Please log in for more thread options Jim Elbrecht wrote:
> I'm not sure why I picked MIG as the first welder I would buy. Might
> have been the illusion that I could get into it for $100 and move up
> from there. [I'm over that.]
>
> I've looked into going to classes, which I'm sure would be the best
> option if I could do it. But I have a bit of a disability that only
> allows me a few hours a day of activity. If I don't overdo those I
> get several more hours of 'sit-down' time where I can read and learn.
> So I decided to teach myself with the help of the internet and a pile
> of books.
>
> Well- a few months later, I learned a little about MIG- decided on a
> Lincoln/Miller 140amp setup. . . . found some forums to read. . .
> bought a couple books. . .and started shopping for a good price-
>
> Noted an offhand comment on one forum where a newbie was showing off
> his new MIG setup and an 'oldie' said 'now you need to get some O/A
> torches'.
>
> The first book I'm reading is Finch's "Welder's Handbook". He makes
> no bones about it. in his opinion everyone who wants to weld should
> start out with O/A. His feeling is that it helps you understand the
> process because you are more in touch with the puddle.
>
> So now as I look at O/A setups and think I could get a decent setup
> for about the same $550-600 as I'm getting ready to spend on MIG, I
> wonder if that isn't the way to go.
>
> O/A has the advantage of being a cutting tool, and 'hot wrench', as
> well as heating metals to be formed. [and I just started reading
> Finch's chapter on brazing and soldering-- is O/A more flexible in the
> 'what you can join' department?]
>
> MIG has the [apparent] advantage of being easy to learn. Since
> I'm in this as much for 'the journey' as anything else, a steeper
> learning curve is fine.
>
> I'm leaning towards O/A now. Any pushes in one direction or the
> other?
How much room do you have to store your welder and related items?
How much electric power do you have available?
Asking what tools to buy to "start welding" is like asking what kind of
tools to buy to "start woodworking". You need to think about what you
actually want to make, how big, what you want to make it out of. If you
want to do a lot of silver soldering, obviously you can't do that with
a MIG welder.
I would start by suggesting you include a different book. As with all
technical books, I highly recommend you check them out at the library
before purchasing. Anyway, the only decent welding book I know of is
"Welding Principles and Applications" by Jeffus.
I started with O/A and a book back in the late '70s. I never had much
luck welding thin curved steel without it distorting. For a very long
time I gave up O/A welding. I have always kept my O/A rig, though, to
use for oxyfuel cutting or for heating. I actually don't use it very
often.
I had a Hobart Handler 140 recently. It was a great little 110v machine.
I used it outdoors to build a gate and to repair a damaged utility trailer.
It's very convenient to just plug it into a regular 110V outlet. There is
some learning involved with MIG welding too, but you can learn it a lot
faster than you can learn O/A welding.
Both O/A and MIG can weld thin metals well. Stick can't.
I'm not even going to talk about TIG except to say that if you get good
at O/A welding it's good practice for learning TIG.
If you don't have power available you have to use gas.
If you only have 110v available you can't buy a 220v welder.
Grant
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Posted by on February 14, 2008, 4:43 pm
Please log in for more thread options > Jim Elbrecht wrote:
> > I'm leaning towards O/A now. =A0Any pushes in one direction or the
> > other?
>
It's a tough choice, but I think that I might push you towards the MIG
a little more. The beauty of MIG is that it offers instant
gratification. Within a day of practicing you can be making nice
welds. Yes, you do need to make sure that you have proper
penetration, but this isn't as big a problem as a lot of people make
it out to be. Especially on small project around the house. Couple a
small MIG with a 4 1/2" angle grinder and you can accomplish some
amazing things. Add gas and you can do nice work on sheet metal. Use
flux core and properly prepared joints and you can do 1/4" steel. And
it's fast too.
Don't get me wrong, I love O/A, and I've done my fair share of welding
with it. It will teach you about the weld puddle and it's a very
enjoyable process to use. However, when given the choice I usually
grab for the MIG gun now. I do use my O/A rig for cutting, but I
could cut with a cut-off wheel on a grinder if I had to. I do use O/A
for bending metal, which is nice, but I don't use it that often. It
is also good for removing stuck bolts, but I still sometimes break
them off (then you can use the MIG to weld a nut on and get them
out). I don't braze nearly as much as I thought I would. And the
things that I do braze usually could be welded anyway.
Get a MIG now, and keep an eye on yard sales and Craigslist for a good
used O/A setup. You'll want it, maybe just not first.
Or, get an O/A first - the case could be made either way...
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Posted by z on February 27, 2008, 1:23 pm
Please log in for more thread options On Feb 14, 4:43=A0pm, TVillem...@aol.com wrote:
>
> > Jim Elbrecht wrote:
> > > I'm leaning towards O/A now. =A0Any pushes in one direction or the
> > > other?
>
> It's a tough choice, but I think that I might push you towards the MIG
> a little more. =A0The beauty of MIG is that it offers instant
> gratification. =A0Within a day of practicing you can be making nice
> welds. =A0Yes, you do need to make sure that you have proper
> penetration, but this isn't as big a problem as a lot of people make
> it out to be. =A0Especially on small project around the house. =A0Couple a=
> small MIG with a 4 1/2" angle grinder and you can accomplish some
> amazing things. =A0Add gas and you can do nice work on sheet metal. =A0Use=
> flux core and properly prepared joints and you can do 1/4" steel. =A0And
> it's fast too.
>
> Don't get me wrong, I love O/A, and I've done my fair share of welding
> with it. =A0It will teach you about the weld puddle and it's a very
> enjoyable process to use. =A0However, when given the choice I usually
> grab for the MIG gun now. =A0I do use my O/A rig for cutting, but I
> could cut with a cut-off wheel on a grinder if I had to. =A0I do use O/A
> for bending metal, which is nice, but I don't use it that often. =A0It
> is also good for removing stuck bolts, but I still sometimes break
> them off (then you can use the MIG to weld a nut on and get them
> out). =A0I don't braze nearly as much as I thought I would. =A0And the
> things that I do braze usually could be welded anyway.
>
> Get a MIG now, and keep an eye on yard sales and Craigslist for a good
> used O/A setup. =A0You'll want it, maybe just not first.
>
> Or, get an O/A first - the case could be made either way...
i'm just beginning meself, but whenever i see somebody welding on tv,
they're doing mig (or tig) not gas.
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> have been the illusion that I could get into it for $100 and move up
> from there. [I'm over that.]
>
> I've looked into going to classes, which I'm sure would be the best
> option if I could do it. But I have a bit of a disability that only
> allows me a few hours a day of activity. If I don't overdo those I
> get several more hours of 'sit-down' time where I can read and learn.
> So I decided to teach myself with the help of the internet and a pile
> of books.
>
> Well- a few months later, I learned a little about MIG- decided on a
> Lincoln/Miller 140amp setup. . . . found some forums to read. . .
> bought a couple books. . .and started shopping for a good price-
>
> Noted an offhand comment on one forum where a newbie was showing off
> his new MIG setup and an 'oldie' said 'now you need to get some O/A
> torches'.
>
> The first book I'm reading is Finch's "Welder's Handbook". He makes
> no bones about it. in his opinion everyone who wants to weld should
> start out with O/A. His feeling is that it helps you understand the
> process because you are more in touch with the puddle.
>
> So now as I look at O/A setups and think I could get a decent setup
> for about the same $550-600 as I'm getting ready to spend on MIG, I
> wonder if that isn't the way to go.
>
> O/A has the advantage of being a cutting tool, and 'hot wrench', as
> well as heating metals to be formed. [and I just started reading
> Finch's chapter on brazing and soldering-- is O/A more flexible in the
> 'what you can join' department?]
>
> MIG has the [apparent] advantage of being easy to learn. Since
> I'm in this as much for 'the journey' as anything else, a steeper
> learning curve is fine.
>
> I'm leaning towards O/A now. Any pushes in one direction or the
> other?
>
> Jim
> [For the googlers and to show off my spell checker; oxy-acetylene,
> acetylene ]
> Thanks,
> Jim