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Posted by KJPRO on August 6, 2008, 11:13 pm
Please log in for more thread options
> Holy Crap,
>
> What's with all this talk about silver solder, stick solder, Oxy/ACE,
> yadda, yadda....
> That stuff is uh, nice, but certainly not neccessary for 'this' task.
>
> - Score the pipes, fittings outside / inside with steel wool, clean
> em' off with a dry 'clean rag'.
> - Fit together parts/joints, flux with water base (non-Acid) flux
> - Turn on the $10.00 propane torch, heat the joints until the flux
> discolors , wet the seams really nice with 95/5 solder.
>
> Bob's your uncle....
That's nice, but technical bulletin # TB 98-04B Dated 11/12/98 states not
to use low temp (soft) solder on R410a units.
Situation: It causes a jell-like acidic substance that will plug metering
devices, strainers, and feeder tubes.
Solution: Units must NOT be installed with flux and soft solder. Units MUST
be brazed using silver bearing or non-silver bearing brazing material such
as sil-fos or plos-copper on all copper to copper connections.
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Posted by Jman on August 7, 2008, 3:44 am
Please log in for more thread options
>
>
> > Holy Crap,
>
> > What's with all this talk about silver solder, stick solder, Oxy/ACE,
> > yadda, yadda....
> > That stuff is uh, nice, but certainly not neccessary for 'this' task.
>
> > - Score the pipes, fittings outside / inside with steel wool, clean
> > em' off with a dry 'clean rag'.
> > - Fit together parts/joints, flux with water base (non-Acid) flux
> > - Turn on the $10.00 propane torch, heat the joints until the flux
> > discolors , wet the seams really nice with 95/5 solder.
>
> > Bob's your uncle....
>
> That's nice, but technical bulletin # TB 98-04B =A0Dated 11/12/98 states =
not
> to use low temp (soft) solder on R410a units.
> Situation: It causes a jell-like acidic substance that will plug metering
> devices, strainers, and feeder tubes.
> Solution: Units must NOT be installed with flux and soft solder. Units MU=
ST
> be brazed using silver bearing or non-silver bearing brazing material suc=
h
> as sil-fos or plos-copper on all copper to copper connections.
Man,
You're quoting regs from 10 years ago !
You guys sure have some strange regulations down there.... Also,
where would the acidity be coming from if you are using a non-Acid
flux ? The chemical properties of 95% tin and 5% Zinc SOLDER is
'completely' different than the zinc coating say,.. on the inside/
outside of a pipe ! Companies here have been installing 60 gallon
water tanks (1000's of them yearly) the same way with no issues. I
can't understand why anyone would use "Copper Phos" (is that what you
meant ?) or any stick for that matter on a simple copper to copper
connection, and especially a tiny 1/8th connector in a refrigeration
scenario.
The only reaon anyone wouldn't use the "Far less expensive 95/5" is
because they don't have the skills to keep the pipe and connectors at
a constant temperature which is far LOWER than stick or silphos. The
application in question just does NOT warrant Stick (silver bearing
solder maybe...) but Copper PHosphate and High temp stick ?......
Overkill.
Cheers,
/FC....
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|
Posted by Dave + Gloria on August 7, 2008, 5:30 am
Please log in for more thread options
>
>
> > Holy Crap,
>
> > What's with all this talk about silver solder, stick solder, Oxy/ACE,
> > yadda, yadda....
> > That stuff is uh, nice, but certainly not neccessary for 'this' task.
>
> > - Score the pipes, fittings outside / inside with steel wool, clean
> > em' off with a dry 'clean rag'.
> > - Fit together parts/joints, flux with water base (non-Acid) flux
> > - Turn on the $10.00 propane torch, heat the joints until the flux
> > discolors , wet the seams really nice with 95/5 solder.
>
> > Bob's your uncle....
>
> That's nice, but technical bulletin # TB 98-04B Dated 11/12/98 states not
> to use low temp (soft) solder on R410a units.
> Situation: It causes a jell-like acidic substance that will plug metering
> devices, strainers, and feeder tubes.
> Solution: Units must NOT be installed with flux and soft solder. Units
> MUST
> be brazed using silver bearing or non-silver bearing brazing material such
> as sil-fos or plos-copper on all copper to copper connections.
Man,
You're quoting regs from 10 years ago !
You guys sure have some strange regulations down there.... Also,
where would the acidity be coming from if you are using a non-Acid
flux ? The chemical properties of 95% tin and 5% Zinc SOLDER is
'completely' different than the zinc coating say,.. on the inside/
outside of a pipe ! Companies here have been installing 60 gallon
water tanks (1000's of them yearly) the same way with no issues. I
can't understand why anyone would use "Copper Phos" (is that what you
meant ?) or any stick for that matter on a simple copper to copper
connection, and especially a tiny 1/8th connector in a refrigeration
scenario.
The only reaon anyone wouldn't use the "Far less expensive 95/5" is
because they don't have the skills to keep the pipe and connectors at
a constant temperature which is far LOWER than stick or silphos. The
application in question just does NOT warrant Stick (silver bearing
solder maybe...) but Copper PHosphate and High temp stick ?......
Overkill.
Cheers,
/FC....
where you been. Did you wag school when they were teaching how to braze
refrig lines.
Just read the install manual from any manufacturer
e.g Daikin
CAUTION TO BE TAKEN WHEN BRAZING REFRIGERANT PIPING
.Do not use flux when brazing refrigerant piping. Therefore, use the
phosphor copper brazing filler metal
(BCuP-2: JIS Z 3264/B-Cu93P-710/795: ISO 3677) which does not require flux..
(Flux has extremely harmful influence on refrigerant piping systems. For
instance, if the chlorine based flux is
used, it will cause pipe corrosion or, in particular, if the flux contains
fluorine, it will damage the refrigerant oil.)
Before brazing local refrigerant piping, nitrogen gas shall be blown
through the piping to expel air from the
piping.
If you brazing is done without nitrogen gas blowing, a large amount of oxide
film develops inside the piping,
and could cause system malfunction.
When brazing the refrigerant piping, only begin brazing after having
carried out nitrogen substitution or
while inserting nitrogen into the refrigerant piping. Once this is done,
connect the indoor unit with a flared
or a flanged connection.
Nitrogen should be set to 0.02 MPa with a pressure-reducing valve if
brazing while inserting nitrogen into
the piping.
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Posted by Noon-Air on August 7, 2008, 8:44 am
Please log in for more thread options
>
>
> > Holy Crap,
>
> > What's with all this talk about silver solder, stick solder, Oxy/ACE,
> > yadda, yadda....
> > That stuff is uh, nice, but certainly not neccessary for 'this' task.
>
> > - Score the pipes, fittings outside / inside with steel wool, clean
> > em' off with a dry 'clean rag'.
> > - Fit together parts/joints, flux with water base (non-Acid) flux
> > - Turn on the $10.00 propane torch, heat the joints until the flux
> > discolors , wet the seams really nice with 95/5 solder.
>
> > Bob's your uncle....
>
> That's nice, but technical bulletin # TB 98-04B Dated 11/12/98 states not
> to use low temp (soft) solder on R410a units.
> Situation: It causes a jell-like acidic substance that will plug metering
> devices, strainers, and feeder tubes.
> Solution: Units must NOT be installed with flux and soft solder. Units
> MUST
> be brazed using silver bearing or non-silver bearing brazing material such
> as sil-fos or plos-copper on all copper to copper connections.
Man,
You're quoting regs from 10 years ago !
You guys sure have some strange regulations down there.... Also,
where would the acidity be coming from if you are using a non-Acid
flux ? The chemical properties of 95% tin and 5% Zinc SOLDER is
'completely' different than the zinc coating say,.. on the inside/
outside of a pipe ! Companies here have been installing 60 gallon
water tanks (1000's of them yearly) the same way with no issues. I
can't understand why anyone would use "Copper Phos" (is that what you
meant ?) or any stick for that matter on a simple copper to copper
connection, and especially a tiny 1/8th connector in a refrigeration
scenario.
The only reaon anyone wouldn't use the "Far less expensive 95/5" is
because they don't have the skills to keep the pipe and connectors at
a constant temperature which is far LOWER than stick or silphos. The
application in question just does NOT warrant Stick (silver bearing
solder maybe...) but Copper PHosphate and High temp stick ?......
Overkill.
Cheers,
/FC....
It has *nothing* to do with "regs", it has to do with manufacturers
instructions and good engineering practices. BTW... the customer pays for
*EVERYTHING*
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|
Posted by Stormin Mormon on August 7, 2008, 9:06 am
Please log in for more thread options
Big difference. A refrigerant system has a tiny orifice to meter the
refrigerant. A 60 gal water tank uses 1/2 or 3/4 copper water pipe.
--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
.
> That's nice, but technical bulletin # TB 98-04B Dated 11/12/98 states not
> to use low temp (soft) solder on R410a units.
> Situation: It causes a jell-like acidic substance that will plug metering
> devices, strainers, and feeder tubes.
> Solution: Units must NOT be installed with flux and soft solder. Units
> MUST
> be brazed using silver bearing or non-silver bearing brazing material such
> as sil-fos or plos-copper on all copper to copper connections.
Man,
You're quoting regs from 10 years ago !
You guys sure have some strange regulations down there.... Also,
where would the acidity be coming from if you are using a non-Acid
flux ? The chemical properties of 95% tin and 5% Zinc SOLDER is
'completely' different than the zinc coating say,.. on the inside/
outside of a pipe ! Companies here have been installing 60 gallon
water tanks (1000's of them yearly) the same way with no issues. I
can't understand why anyone would use "Copper Phos" (is that what you
meant ?) or any stick for that matter on a simple copper to copper
connection, and especially a tiny 1/8th connector in a refrigeration
scenario.
The only reaon anyone wouldn't use the "Far less expensive 95/5" is
because they don't have the skills to keep the pipe and connectors at
a constant temperature which is far LOWER than stick or silphos. The
application in question just does NOT warrant Stick (silver bearing
solder maybe...) but Copper PHosphate and High temp stick ?......
Overkill.
Cheers,
/FC....
|
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>
> What's with all this talk about silver solder, stick solder, Oxy/ACE,
> yadda, yadda....
> That stuff is uh, nice, but certainly not neccessary for 'this' task.
>
> - Score the pipes, fittings outside / inside with steel wool, clean
> em' off with a dry 'clean rag'.
> - Fit together parts/joints, flux with water base (non-Acid) flux
> - Turn on the $10.00 propane torch, heat the joints until the flux
> discolors , wet the seams really nice with 95/5 solder.
>
> Bob's your uncle....