Re: Now 6010 root (happy 7018 fill)- what rod sizes and types

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Re: Now 6010 root (happy 7018 fill)- what rod sizes and types JTMcC 04-15-2006
Posted by JTMcC on April 15, 2006, 10:25 pm
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>
>> >
>> > > Hi
>> > >
>> > > Happy having moved to 7018 for most welds.
>> > >
>> > > Should I be looking to 6010 at all? What for? (roots?, corners?)
>> >
>> > If you're not welding pipe, you'll have a relative small need to ever
>> > run
>> > 6010.
>>
>> What is so special about 6010 that makes it a pipe rod?
>
> Extreme heat, that garantees complete penetration.
>
>
>> And why is that rod so agressive, and hard to run?
>
> The cellulose fiber (sawdust) in the flux creates CO2 as it burns, which
> makes the arc much hotter, and also more erratic.
>
>> It's exclusively DC reverse polarity, right?
>
> Yep, and it really needs either a big transformer or an industrial
> strength inverter to work well.

No no no.


>
> It will stick like crazy on a small hobby welder.
>
>
>> There is no running it on A/C, or straight polarity, right?
>
>
> DCEP only for welding, but if you want to use it for slicing, then run
> it on DCEN, soak the rods in water and crank the amperage to the top.

Still no no no. In pipeline work the stringer bead is sometimes welded on
straight polarity, in europe I believe ALL of them are. In the U.S. tho the
vast majority are welded reverse. Straight is used sometimes to solve burn
thru problems as the penetration is lessened in straight mode.


>
>
>
>
>
>>
>>
>> > What type of work do you intend to do? That will tell the tale.
>> >
>> > JTMcC.
>> >
>> >
>> > >
>> > > Here in UK, Bohler "Foxcel" 6010 seems inverter-friendly and seems to
>> > > me to do the business (pen. and smooth running). Good choice?
>> > >
>> > > What 6010 rod sizes should I buy and be practicing with?
>> > >
>> > > What should I be practicing in the workshop?
>> > >
>> > > Particularly - when do you "drag" (classic keyholing a V-butt root?)
>> > > and when do you have "open arc" - and if open arc, what arc-length
>> > >
>> > > Richard Smith
>> >
>> >
>
> --
> Welding Instructor - South Seattle Comm. Coll.
> - Divers Institute of Technology
> CWI/CWE
> WABO Examiner



Posted by Richard Smith on April 16, 2006, 5:12 am
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>
> Still no no no. In pipeline work the stringer bead is sometimes welded on
> straight polarity, in europe I believe ALL of them are. In the U.S. tho the
> vast majority are welded reverse. Straight is used sometimes to solve burn
> thru problems as the penetration is lessened in straight mode.
>

Can anyone point to proof of these things? That would really get to
the bottom of this issue.

The most I am able to do at the moment is to tell friends not to waste
cellphone time or other expenses discussing what yet another person
has told them.

What about some program of work measuring burn-off rates, joint
run-rates, penetration and so on on DCEP and DCEN?

Richard S.

Posted by JTMcC on April 16, 2006, 12:20 pm
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>
>>
>> Still no no no. In pipeline work the stringer bead is sometimes welded
>> on
>> straight polarity, in europe I believe ALL of them are. In the U.S. tho
>> the
>> vast majority are welded reverse. Straight is used sometimes to solve
>> burn
>> thru problems as the penetration is lessened in straight mode.
>>
>
> Can anyone point to proof of these things? That would really get to
> the bottom of this issue.


Well, you could ask someone involved in pipeline welding in your country. If
you don't know anyone in that industry then you could try to locate someone,
and ask them. Failing that you could search for written documentation which
in this field would be sparse. But the Lincoln booklet titled "Welding
Pressure Pipelines & Piping Systems" will get you a bit of information on
the use of 5P+ in straight polarity.
I do work as a Pipeline Welder and have for years.

JTMcC


>
> The most I am able to do at the moment is to tell friends not to waste
> cellphone time or other expenses discussing what yet another person
> has told them.
>
> What about some program of work measuring burn-off rates, joint
> run-rates, penetration and so on on DCEP and DCEN?
>
> Richard S.



Posted by JTMcC on April 16, 2006, 6:34 pm
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>
>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>> Still no no no. In pipeline work the stringer bead is sometimes welded
>>>> on
>>>> straight polarity, in europe I believe ALL of them are. In the U.S. tho
>>>> the
>>>> vast majority are welded reverse. Straight is used sometimes to solve
>>>> burn
>>>> thru problems as the penetration is lessened in straight mode.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Can anyone point to proof of these things? That would really get to
>>> the bottom of this issue.
>>
>>
>> Well, you could ask someone involved in pipeline welding in your country.
>> If you don't know anyone in that industry then you could try to locate
>> someone, and ask them. Failing that you could search for written
>> documentation which in this field would be sparse. But the Lincoln
>> booklet titled "Welding Pressure Pipelines & Piping Systems" will get you
>> a bit of information on the use of 5P+ in straight polarity.
>> I do work as a Pipeline Welder and have for years.
>>
>> JTMcC
>
>
> Or just call Lincoln directly, they can confirm for you that 6010 is
> frequently used in straight mode.
>
> JTMcC.

The same information is in the "Lincoln Procedure Handbook of Arc Welding",
if you happen to have it. That book contains a huge amount of informatuion
and is only around $30. The "Welding Pressure Pipelines & Piping Systems" is
free from Lincoln.
But like I said, anyone that works in the pipeline field will be aware of
it.
It's odd that you told us that "cellulosics don't match the strength of
modern pipeline steels", then you told us you were speaking from "knowledge
and experience", and then you told us you've never worked in commercial
welding conditions. I do feed the kids and pay the bills as a pipe welder, I
have for over 20 years and I have a pretty large amount of pipeline
experience, I know what consumables are in use, today, on "modern pipeline
steels" and at what polarity. This is basic info that anyone with a year or
two in the business knows. I've tried to point out some real world facts as
they are in the field, thinking that might be a bit helpfull.
Maybe you're better off if you continue to discuss the topic with people
who've never set foot on a right of way in their life, and have never burned
a can of 6010/7010/8010 in anger, much less pallet loads per job. And
certainly have never set the procedures on a job, or laid eyes on a line
pipe Mill Test Report.

JTMcC.


>>
>>
>>>
>>> The most I am able to do at the moment is to tell friends not to waste
>>> cellphone time or other expenses discussing what yet another person
>>> has told them.
>>>
>>> What about some program of work measuring burn-off rates, joint
>>> run-rates, penetration and so on on DCEP and DCEN?
>>>
>>> Richard S.
>>
>>
>
>



Posted by JTMcC on April 18, 2006, 12:30 am
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>
>> It's odd that you told us that "cellulosics don't match the strength of
>> modern pipeline steels", then you told us you were speaking from
>> "knowledge
>> ...
>
> I got out of my depth here, relaying comment from people who have
> worked developing welding procedures for 690MPa / 100Ksi steel
> pipeline.
>
> Richard S.


100ksi as-welded deposit is obtainable using 9010, a downhill pipeline rod
for X-80 line pipe. Mid 90's ksi deposit is what you normally end up with
using the most common downhill pipe rod in use today (70+).
There are grades of line pipe that aren't suited to the normal consumables,
but to take that still fairly uncommon example and then say that "celulosics
don't match the strength of modern pipeline steels" is picking an unusual
example from one extreem, and trying to make it apply across the board.
Thousands of miles of pipeline (X-80 and below) are welded with these
consumables (6010, 7010, 8010, 9010) in the U.S. every year.

JTMcC



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