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Posted by Grant Erwin on March 2, 2008, 5:12 am
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Gunner Asch wrote:
> On Sat, 01 Mar 2008 19:41:18 -0600, Ignoramus30768
>
>
>>I would attempt to find another local dealer with less attitude.
>>
>>i
>
>
> There is a Praxair dealer here in Taft.
>
> An utter asshole.
>
> Now I take all my bottles, and all the bottles of my friends 150 miles
> down state and have them filled, while Im working down there.
>
> Hell..with the price difference, on ONE tank of argon, I could afford
> to drive the 300 miles round trip .
>
> $21 for 135 cf downstate
> $68 for 135 cf locally.
>
> $47 is a hell of a difference.
>
> Fuck Praxair
This is going to sound amazing, but it's completely true. On January 18 of
this year, I was quoted $50 to refill a 125 cf bottle of C25 (actually,
to swap, of course). Last Friday the same store quoted me $55 to refill
a 251 cf bottle of C25. That gives me double the gas for nearly the same
price. Gunner, maybe you should dig up an old oxygen cylinder and swap
it (straight across; they're both high pressure cylinders) for a 251
full of C25. Might help your price a whole lot.
I haven't gotten very many good prices out of my local Praxair either.
But they're real close (3 miles vs. 16 to the next closest).
Grant Erwin
Kirkland, Washington
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Posted by Drew McEachren on March 2, 2008, 11:32 pm
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>
>> The guy at you local welding supply shop is right. For the most part it
>> isn't really worth it to sell the machine for them, he is telling you the
>> truth. They make their money in selling consumeables and gas.
>> Unless you are going to be doing big volume with them year round, they
>> won't move. For example, with my shop, I sometimes spend upwards of
>> $5000 a month in wire, gasses, tips, stick, etc, etc. When I buy a new
>> machine I maybe get it for 10 to 15 percent less than you would. With
>> that kind of volume you would think there would be a better break, but
>> there really are no margins. Believe me I try to beat them up on price
>> as much as I can. You can be sure I pay a hell a lot less on consumeables
>> though. The other cost that you have to consider, is if something goes
>> wrong with your machine (rare with Miller, but it does happen) and you
>> bought it online, is shipping back for service or warranty. I say the
>> local shop is going to be well within their rights to tell you to fuck
>> off if you pass them over for a few dollars, only show up when your argon
>> or mix gas is empty.
>
> Well, I bought my oxy, acetelyne, and mix bottles there in the past. It
> was not a great experience then, but I needed them.
>
> Based on your logic this company will NEVER care about my business. I
> don't plan to start a production shop. My last spool of wire lasted a
> year. Even with the projects I have in mind I doubt I'll buy more than a
> couple spools a year.
>
>> Sometimes it is money better spent locally even if it is a bit more.
>
> I tried and got told my business is worthless. That may or may not be
> better spent.
>
>> Remember, he lives where you live to. If someone is going to go
>> somewhere else to save a few bucks on something you do for a living, and
>> then come to you to fix thier problems for free after the fact, how would
>> you feel?
>
> As a local business owner myself I know all these arguements very well. I
> have to compete against bigger out of town companies every day.
>
> I want to spend two grand+ on a welding rig. What am I asking for free?
> Nothing. Warranty? If they are a warranty shop they get paid to fix
> stuff, and if they aren't my welder wouldn't go there anyway. Out of
> warranty? I'ld buy the parts where I could get them and fix it myself.
>
>> Probably right along the same lines as mentioned above. If not you are a
>> much better man than most.
>
> Huh? I don't work for free, and neither does anybody else.
>
> Let me put it to you this way. I've already been told my business isn't
> worth anything. How do you think that makes me feel. How is that
> supposed to make me feel all warm and fuzzy that they WILL help me out if
> I have a problem. It doesn't at all. If he doesn't want to cut me any
> slack on pricing. Fine. Doesn't want to include anything. Fine. Tell
> me my business isn't worth anything. Not fine.
>
> P.S. I tried to buy a portable welder at this same shop several years ago
> when I bought my 110 rig, and actually was told I couldn't afford anything
> they sold. I don't recall that anybody even bothered to actually give me
> a price that time. They just looked at me and made a wrong decision.
> There is another newer shop down the street that sells a different brand.
> I'll check them out on Monday.
>
>
Points taken.
I guess I didn't think that when he said "Sometimes its just not worth
selling a welder," he could have been insinuating to you. I know that my
local guys are really good and talking to them, they would rather not sell
the smaller welders. I'm sure somewhere along the line you have had
experiences stocking or servicing something that was more of a pain in the
ass than it was worth. Anyhow, moot point. If you have other options in
your local economy, and you already knew this guy was a dick, why go back
for anything in the first place?
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Posted by SteveB on March 3, 2008, 2:39 am
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>
>>
>>> The guy at you local welding supply shop is right. For the most part it
>>> isn't really worth it to sell the machine for them, he is telling you
>>> the truth. They make their money in selling consumeables and gas.
>>> Unless you are going to be doing big volume with them year round, they
>>> won't move. For example, with my shop, I sometimes spend upwards of
>>> $5000 a month in wire, gasses, tips, stick, etc, etc. When I buy a new
>>> machine I maybe get it for 10 to 15 percent less than you would. With
>>> that kind of volume you would think there would be a better break, but
>>> there really are no margins. Believe me I try to beat them up on price
>>> as much as I can. You can be sure I pay a hell a lot less on
>>> consumeables though. The other cost that you have to consider, is if
>>> something goes wrong with your machine (rare with Miller, but it does
>>> happen) and you bought it online, is shipping back for service or
>>> warranty. I say the local shop is going to be well within their rights
>>> to tell you to fuck off if you pass them over for a few dollars, only
>>> show up when your argon or mix gas is empty.
>>
>> Well, I bought my oxy, acetelyne, and mix bottles there in the past. It
>> was not a great experience then, but I needed them.
>>
>> Based on your logic this company will NEVER care about my business. I
>> don't plan to start a production shop. My last spool of wire lasted a
>> year. Even with the projects I have in mind I doubt I'll buy more than a
>> couple spools a year.
>>
>>> Sometimes it is money better spent locally even if it is a bit more.
>>
>> I tried and got told my business is worthless. That may or may not be
>> better spent.
>>
>>> Remember, he lives where you live to. If someone is going to go
>>> somewhere else to save a few bucks on something you do for a living, and
>>> then come to you to fix thier problems for free after the fact, how
>>> would you feel?
>>
>> As a local business owner myself I know all these arguements very well.
>> I have to compete against bigger out of town companies every day.
>>
>> I want to spend two grand+ on a welding rig. What am I asking for free?
>> Nothing. Warranty? If they are a warranty shop they get paid to fix
>> stuff, and if they aren't my welder wouldn't go there anyway. Out of
>> warranty? I'ld buy the parts where I could get them and fix it myself.
>>
>>> Probably right along the same lines as mentioned above. If not you are
>>> a much better man than most.
>>
>> Huh? I don't work for free, and neither does anybody else.
>>
>> Let me put it to you this way. I've already been told my business isn't
>> worth anything. How do you think that makes me feel. How is that
>> supposed to make me feel all warm and fuzzy that they WILL help me out if
>> I have a problem. It doesn't at all. If he doesn't want to cut me any
>> slack on pricing. Fine. Doesn't want to include anything. Fine. Tell
>> me my business isn't worth anything. Not fine.
>>
>> P.S. I tried to buy a portable welder at this same shop several years
>> ago when I bought my 110 rig, and actually was told I couldn't afford
>> anything they sold. I don't recall that anybody even bothered to
>> actually give me a price that time. They just looked at me and made a
>> wrong decision. There is another newer shop down the street that sells a
>> different brand. I'll check them out on Monday.
>>
>>
> Points taken.
>
> I guess I didn't think that when he said "Sometimes its just not worth
> selling a welder," he could have been insinuating to you. I know that my
> local guys are really good and talking to them, they would rather not sell
> the smaller welders. I'm sure somewhere along the line you have had
> experiences stocking or servicing something that was more of a pain in the
> ass than it was worth. Anyhow, moot point. If you have other options in
> your local economy, and you already knew this guy was a dick, why go back
> for anything in the first place?
I think it is also noteworthy that a lot of people who work at these stores
do not know a lot about welding or parts. I've had many an experience where
one guy couldn't find what I wanted, or just looked back with a blank stare,
and the other one said, "It's right behind you on the top shelf." Or the
guy comes up with the wrong part and I say, "That ain't it" and he swears be
damned that it is. "Well, that's what the book says," he huffs. Then I
pull out the old part from my pocket and make him look like the idiot he is.
(A very good idea to take in old parts to compare, but hold them for trump
in case you need them.)
One of the things about going to local shops is establishing a contact. I
usually have one at every store. It usually takes me a few trips to sort
them out and find the smart one. After that, I try to get that one all the
time. And some of these places are worse than hvac suppliers. If they
think you aren't a real dyed in the wool welder, they treat you with
disdain. I've seen it while in there, and a newbie comes in and asks for
something and needs some help. And in most cases, the counter geek barely
knows more than the newbie. He just has the shirt and name tag. Once you
get a guy who knows what he's doing, and he knows you know what you're
doing, it usually goes a lot smoother. Unless YOUR contact is off bass
fishing.
Steve
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Posted by Bob La Londe on March 3, 2008, 10:24 am
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> Unless YOUR contact is off bass fishing.
Heck, I'ld rather be bass fishing. Unfortunately my customers would never
stand for it. If I go fishing mid week I take my cell phone with me.
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Posted by Bob La Londe on March 3, 2008, 10:22 am
Please log in for more thread options >
>>
>>> The guy at you local welding supply shop is right. For the most part it
>>> isn't really worth it to sell the machine for them, he is telling you
>>> the truth. They make their money in selling consumeables and gas.
>>> Unless you are going to be doing big volume with them year round, they
>>> won't move. For example, with my shop, I sometimes spend upwards of
>>> $5000 a month in wire, gasses, tips, stick, etc, etc. When I buy a new
>>> machine I maybe get it for 10 to 15 percent less than you would. With
>>> that kind of volume you would think there would be a better break, but
>>> there really are no margins. Believe me I try to beat them up on price
>>> as much as I can. You can be sure I pay a hell a lot less on
>>> consumeables though. The other cost that you have to consider, is if
>>> something goes wrong with your machine (rare with Miller, but it does
>>> happen) and you bought it online, is shipping back for service or
>>> warranty. I say the local shop is going to be well within their rights
>>> to tell you to fuck off if you pass them over for a few dollars, only
>>> show up when your argon or mix gas is empty.
>>
>> Well, I bought my oxy, acetelyne, and mix bottles there in the past. It
>> was not a great experience then, but I needed them.
>>
>> Based on your logic this company will NEVER care about my business. I
>> don't plan to start a production shop. My last spool of wire lasted a
>> year. Even with the projects I have in mind I doubt I'll buy more than a
>> couple spools a year.
>>
>>> Sometimes it is money better spent locally even if it is a bit more.
>>
>> I tried and got told my business is worthless. That may or may not be
>> better spent.
>>
>>> Remember, he lives where you live to. If someone is going to go
>>> somewhere else to save a few bucks on something you do for a living, and
>>> then come to you to fix thier problems for free after the fact, how
>>> would you feel?
>>
>> As a local business owner myself I know all these arguements very well.
>> I have to compete against bigger out of town companies every day.
>>
>> I want to spend two grand+ on a welding rig. What am I asking for free?
>> Nothing. Warranty? If they are a warranty shop they get paid to fix
>> stuff, and if they aren't my welder wouldn't go there anyway. Out of
>> warranty? I'ld buy the parts where I could get them and fix it myself.
>>
>>> Probably right along the same lines as mentioned above. If not you are
>>> a much better man than most.
>>
>> Huh? I don't work for free, and neither does anybody else.
>>
>> Let me put it to you this way. I've already been told my business isn't
>> worth anything. How do you think that makes me feel. How is that
>> supposed to make me feel all warm and fuzzy that they WILL help me out if
>> I have a problem. It doesn't at all. If he doesn't want to cut me any
>> slack on pricing. Fine. Doesn't want to include anything. Fine. Tell
>> me my business isn't worth anything. Not fine.
>>
>> P.S. I tried to buy a portable welder at this same shop several years
>> ago when I bought my 110 rig, and actually was told I couldn't afford
>> anything they sold. I don't recall that anybody even bothered to
>> actually give me a price that time. They just looked at me and made a
>> wrong decision. There is another newer shop down the street that sells a
>> different brand. I'll check them out on Monday.
>>
>>
> Points taken.
>
> I guess I didn't think that when he said "Sometimes its just not worth
> selling a welder," he could have been insinuating to you. I know that my
> local guys are really good and talking to them, they would rather not sell
> the smaller welders. I'm sure somewhere along the line you have had
> experiences stocking or servicing something that was more of a pain in the
> ass than it was worth. Anyhow, moot point. If you have other options in
> your local economy, and you already knew this guy was a dick, why go back
> for anything in the first place?
Actually to my knowledge I had never spoken to that particular guy before.
In fact my dad who used to buy a lot of gas and tanks from that shop (he had
a country hardware store and stocked and resold gas for the local farmers,
and that shop was his supplier) had told me the guy I had the poor
experience with in the past didn't work there anymore. He works at the
other store down the street now. The one I'm gonna try and visit today.
LOL.
Ultimately though, I was trying to do the buy local thing.
Its way easier for me to do my research right here in front of my computer.
Usually its easier and takes a lot less time to buy it here as well. I make
the purchase in a few minutes and in a few days it arrives on my door step.
I can spend the intervening time working on things that make me money and
taking care of my own customers. If I go shopping at local stores it often
takes two or three trips and if they don't have what I want in stock more.
It can take upto several more hours of time to buy locally for a single
purchase.
Lots of people say, "You should buy locally even if it costs a little more."
In response I say that even if its the same price it costs a little more.
Time is money. 2-3 hours extra can be a couple hundred dollars in service
revenue not earned. I still try. Like I said I'm a local small business
owner and I understand the difficulties of doing business. I also
understand though that my time is precious, and I'ld rather be bass fishing.
LOL.
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