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Posted by Rob Fraser on July 5, 2008, 2:14 pm
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> Finally found that my oil leak (replaced the drain plug gasket and oil 5
> times) problem is a hairline crack in the oil pan immediately adjacent to
> the drain plug.
> The plug threads into a thickened (re-enforced) area of the pan and
> immediately at the edge of this thickened area starts a hairline crack
> that radiates outward for about 3/8 th of an inch. It is possible that
> the manufacturer welded this thickened area into the pan and the weld
> junction is either failing are developing a stress crack.
>
> I propose to clean the area with a wire wheel and then hit it with the
> wire feed welder. Ground strap will be within a few inches, however I
> will disconnect the battery just in case. Wife will stand by with a huge
> fire extinguisher. Car is up on a hoist.
>
> Removing the pan is the other alternative, but lots of exhaust pipe and
> cross bracing in the way. Probably about 2 hours work.
>
> All comments, suggestions, warnings appreciated.
>
> Ivan Vegvary
>
Ivan,
Really, Pull and clean the pan. It's the right thing to do. Oil is going
to be contaminating the weld area without cleaning and prepping it. What
kind of pan is it? Would you want to replace it if you are seeing stress
cracks which indicate a deeper problem or end of life for the pan. I make my
own oil pans for race cars and customize ones for custom jobs. It's just
better to do it once and correctly. You don't want to dump the contents on a
road trip and lose the engine.
Rob
Fraser Competition Engines
Chicago, IL.
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Posted by Ivan Vegvary on July 6, 2008, 4:53 pm
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> Finally found that my oil leak (replaced the drain plug gasket and oil 5
> times) problem is a hairline crack in the oil pan immediately adjacent to
> the drain plug.
> The plug threads into a thickened (re-enforced) area of the pan and
> immediately at the edge of this thickened area starts a hairline crack
> that radiates outward for about 3/8 th of an inch. It is possible that
> the manufacturer welded this thickened area into the pan and the weld
> junction is either failing are developing a stress crack.
>
> I propose to clean the area with a wire wheel and then hit it with the
> wire feed welder. Ground strap will be within a few inches, however I
> will disconnect the battery just in case. Wife will stand by with a huge
> fire extinguisher. Car is up on a hoist.
>
> Removing the pan is the other alternative, but lots of exhaust pipe and
> cross bracing in the way. Probably about 2 hours work.
>
> All comments, suggestions, warnings appreciated.
>
> Ivan Vegvary
>
Hey all, thanks for the thoughtful comments.
Decided to take off the pan prior to welding.
Crack is near drain hole and includes the re-enforced threaded portion.
Purchased a 14mm 1.5 pitch nut at ACE hardware ($ 1. 48 ouch!) and a 14mm
1.5 bolt ($ 3.85 OUCH OUCH!!!!). Faced off the 'castle-ated' portion of the
nut on the lathe so I would have a large, fat face against the drain plug
gasket.
Threaded the nut onto the bolt and then threaded the bolt into the drain
plug hole with the nut tight up against the drain hole. Drilled the end of
the crack to relieve stress. Brazed the nut onto the oil pan along with
brazing the adjacent crack. Sprayed the area with a rattle can. Looks
great.
Dealer wanted $ 186 for a replacement plan. Wrecking yard wanted $ 105,
including shipping. Loving wife said I should buy the new pan since the
kids (owners of the car) can afford it. I was able to braze it in less time
than it would have taken to drive to the dealer. Not the prettiest braze
job, but, I got enough metal on there so that it will never break or leak at
that location.
Thanks again for encouraging me not to weld 'in-situ'.
Ivan Vegvary
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Posted by RoyJ on July 6, 2008, 6:09 pm
Please log in for more thread options Well done!
Ivan Vegvary wrote:
>> Finally found that my oil leak (replaced the drain plug gasket and oil 5
>> times) problem is a hairline crack in the oil pan immediately adjacent to
>> the drain plug.
>> The plug threads into a thickened (re-enforced) area of the pan and
>> immediately at the edge of this thickened area starts a hairline crack
>> that radiates outward for about 3/8 th of an inch. It is possible that
>> the manufacturer welded this thickened area into the pan and the weld
>> junction is either failing are developing a stress crack.
>>
>> I propose to clean the area with a wire wheel and then hit it with the
>> wire feed welder. Ground strap will be within a few inches, however I
>> will disconnect the battery just in case. Wife will stand by with a huge
>> fire extinguisher. Car is up on a hoist.
>>
>> Removing the pan is the other alternative, but lots of exhaust pipe and
>> cross bracing in the way. Probably about 2 hours work.
>>
>> All comments, suggestions, warnings appreciated.
>>
>> Ivan Vegvary
>>
> Hey all, thanks for the thoughtful comments.
> Decided to take off the pan prior to welding.
> Crack is near drain hole and includes the re-enforced threaded portion.
> Purchased a 14mm 1.5 pitch nut at ACE hardware ($ 1. 48 ouch!) and a 14mm
> 1.5 bolt ($ 3.85 OUCH OUCH!!!!). Faced off the 'castle-ated' portion of the
> nut on the lathe so I would have a large, fat face against the drain plug
> gasket.
> Threaded the nut onto the bolt and then threaded the bolt into the drain
> plug hole with the nut tight up against the drain hole. Drilled the end of
> the crack to relieve stress. Brazed the nut onto the oil pan along with
> brazing the adjacent crack. Sprayed the area with a rattle can. Looks
> great.
>
> Dealer wanted $ 186 for a replacement plan. Wrecking yard wanted $ 105,
> including shipping. Loving wife said I should buy the new pan since the
> kids (owners of the car) can afford it. I was able to braze it in less time
> than it would have taken to drive to the dealer. Not the prettiest braze
> job, but, I got enough metal on there so that it will never break or leak at
> that location.
>
> Thanks again for encouraging me not to weld 'in-situ'.
>
> Ivan Vegvary
>
>
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Posted by Stupendous Man on July 7, 2008, 2:07 pm
Please log in for more thread options A mechanic at a friend's shop was welding on a pan and the vapor went off.
It shot out a burst of flame catching him square in the face. Not pretty.
What is wrong with soldering using big coppers, heated a few feet away on
the bench? I did this with a cracked fuel tank, although the assistant was
heating the coppers 40 feet away and above floor level due to gas vapor
being what it is.
--
Stupendous Man,
Defender of Freedom, Advocate of Liberty
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Posted by John Gullotti on July 9, 2008, 10:54 pm
Please log in for more thread options Good choice too. Brazing, that is.
Unbeknownst to many, almost all (if not all) of the hardware store fasteners
are leaded steel. Welding to leaded steels is possible, but one never gets
the original base material ductility or strength in welds to leaded steels
and there is the significant potential for undetected hot cracking.
Commercial fasteners are made by folks who are concerned about their tooling
and not whether or not the fasteners will work well in a welded application.
Leaded (free machining) steels are much easier on automated screw machines
and the factories can get many, many more parts per setup than if they use
"regular" steel grades.
J
>
>> Finally found that my oil leak (replaced the drain plug gasket and oil 5
>> times) problem is a hairline crack in the oil pan immediately adjacent to
>> the drain plug.
>> The plug threads into a thickened (re-enforced) area of the pan and
>> immediately at the edge of this thickened area starts a hairline crack
>> that radiates outward for about 3/8 th of an inch. It is possible that
>> the manufacturer welded this thickened area into the pan and the weld
>> junction is either failing are developing a stress crack.
>>
>> I propose to clean the area with a wire wheel and then hit it with the
>> wire feed welder. Ground strap will be within a few inches, however I
>> will disconnect the battery just in case. Wife will stand by with a huge
>> fire extinguisher. Car is up on a hoist.
>>
>> Removing the pan is the other alternative, but lots of exhaust pipe and
>> cross bracing in the way. Probably about 2 hours work.
>>
>> All comments, suggestions, warnings appreciated.
>>
>> Ivan Vegvary
>>
> Hey all, thanks for the thoughtful comments.
> Decided to take off the pan prior to welding.
> Crack is near drain hole and includes the re-enforced threaded portion.
> Purchased a 14mm 1.5 pitch nut at ACE hardware ($ 1. 48 ouch!) and a 14mm
> 1.5 bolt ($ 3.85 OUCH OUCH!!!!). Faced off the 'castle-ated' portion of
> the nut on the lathe so I would have a large, fat face against the drain
> plug gasket.
> Threaded the nut onto the bolt and then threaded the bolt into the drain
> plug hole with the nut tight up against the drain hole. Drilled the end
> of the crack to relieve stress. Brazed the nut onto the oil pan along
> with brazing the adjacent crack. Sprayed the area with a rattle can.
> Looks great.
>
> Dealer wanted $ 186 for a replacement plan. Wrecking yard wanted $ 105,
> including shipping. Loving wife said I should buy the new pan since the
> kids (owners of the car) can afford it. I was able to braze it in less
> time than it would have taken to drive to the dealer. Not the prettiest
> braze job, but, I got enough metal on there so that it will never break or
> leak at that location.
>
> Thanks again for encouraging me not to weld 'in-situ'.
>
> Ivan Vegvary
>
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> times) problem is a hairline crack in the oil pan immediately adjacent to
> the drain plug.
> The plug threads into a thickened (re-enforced) area of the pan and
> immediately at the edge of this thickened area starts a hairline crack
> that radiates outward for about 3/8 th of an inch. It is possible that
> the manufacturer welded this thickened area into the pan and the weld
> junction is either failing are developing a stress crack.
>
> I propose to clean the area with a wire wheel and then hit it with the
> wire feed welder. Ground strap will be within a few inches, however I
> will disconnect the battery just in case. Wife will stand by with a huge
> fire extinguisher. Car is up on a hoist.
>
> Removing the pan is the other alternative, but lots of exhaust pipe and
> cross bracing in the way. Probably about 2 hours work.
>
> All comments, suggestions, warnings appreciated.
>
> Ivan Vegvary
>