Wire size for welder AC supply

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Subject Author Date
Wire size for welder AC supply Bob F 05-19-2008
Posted by Maxwell on May 22, 2008, 9:27 pm
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>>
>>
>>> Agreed, but that's just terminology. Grounds and neutrals all connect
>>> back
>>> to the same place on a 240V system, and can be downsized one wire size.
>>>
>>Ummm, not entirely true. Equipment grounding conductor sizes are
>>determined
>>by the size of the overcurrent device (circuit breaker ) that protects the
>>circuit. See NEC Table 250-122 . In the case of a 60 amp circuit ( #6
>>THWN
>>wire) one could use a # 10 copper grounding conductor. In this case you're
>>down 2 wire sizes, but a 20 amp circuit ( #12 copper ) requires a # 12
>>grounding conductor.
>>Paul
>>
>>
>
> And they don't necessarily "connect back to the same place" either.
>
> In a subpanel, the grounding and grounded conductors are _not_ bonded.
>
> scott

And you are either nit picking or you missed the point. A sub-panel was not
mentioned.




Posted by Maxwell on May 22, 2008, 9:26 pm
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>
>
>> Agreed, but that's just terminology. Grounds and neutrals all connect
>> back to the same place on a 240V system, and can be downsized one wire
>> size.
>>
> Ummm, not entirely true. Equipment grounding conductor sizes are
> determined by the size of the overcurrent device (circuit breaker ) that
> protects the circuit. See NEC Table 250-122 . In the case of a 60 amp
> circuit ( #6 THWN wire) one could use a # 10 copper grounding conductor.
> In this case you're down 2 wire sizes, but a 20 amp circuit ( #12 copper )
> requires a # 12 grounding conductor.
> Paul

You're either nit picking or you missed the point.

His application will require either a #8 or #6 circuit, both of which will
allow you to save money on wire by dropping at least one wire size on the
third conductor.




Posted by Paul in Lapine on May 22, 2008, 10:02 pm
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>
>>
>>
>>> Agreed, but that's just terminology. Grounds and neutrals all connect
>>> back to the same place on a 240V system, and can be downsized one wire
>>> size.
>>>
>> Ummm, not entirely true. Equipment grounding conductor sizes are
>> determined by the size of the overcurrent device (circuit breaker ) that
>> protects the circuit. See NEC Table 250-122 . In the case of a 60 amp
>> circuit ( #6 THWN wire) one could use a # 10 copper grounding conductor.
>> In this case you're down 2 wire sizes, but a 20 amp circuit ( #12
>> copper ) requires a # 12 grounding conductor.
>> Paul
>
> You're either nit picking or you missed the point.
>
> His application will require either a #8 or #6 circuit, both of which
> will allow you to save money on wire by dropping at least one wire size on
> the third conductor.
>
>
I simply didn't want someone reading this thread to assume that it is always
OK to drop a size for the neutral or grounding conductor in a 240v circuit.
That certainly isn't the case.
Paul



Posted by Pat on May 23, 2008, 10:05 pm
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>
>> More to think about. The welder says 100% duty cycle,
>
> (AT 90 amps AC)
>
>> tapering to 20% at full output current.
>>
>> Would that mean I could go to 8ga. ?
>>
>>

I would match the wire to the circuit breaker. If you put in a 60 amp
breaker then I would wire it with 60 amp wire.



Posted by Ignoramus4856 on May 20, 2008, 7:03 am
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>
> Ignoramus31588 wrote:
>>
>> > I just picked up an old Ac/DC Dayton welder (230/180 amps). The label says
"Pri
>> > Amps 65.7" at 230 volts. Can anyone help me determine what size wire I need
to
>> > run to an outlet to feed this thing. I will probably want 20-25 feet or so.
>> >
>> > Dayton 3Z563
>> > $75
>> > Pri Volts 230-O.C.V. 78-Arc Volts 25-Pri Amps 65.7-Sec Amps 230
>> >
>> > It'll be a big step up from my ancient 130 amp AC buzz-box. Finally, I get
tp
>> > play with DC.
>>
>> Go to Home Depot and look up table next to the wire spools. I believe
>> #4 will cover you nicely, according to my table.
>
> Did you take into account the duty cycle derating the NEC allows? NEC
> article 630.11 and table 630.11(A), multipliers range from 1.00 for 100%
> duty cycle welders down to 0.45 for 20% duty cycle or less. If the
> welder in question were rated at say 50% duty cycle, the multiplier
> would be 0.71 so you'd size the wire for a 46.647A load (rounded up to
> 50A) or 6ga copper conductors.

Yes, but is it a good idea? I do not think so. He may want to use the
outlet for other things too. Much better to go to #4 and have a full
powered outlet.

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