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Welding Forums - Welding of materials for manufacture & repair.
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Posted by Richard Smith on April 5, 2008, 1:05 pm
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Hi all
For 6013 vert-up T-fillet welds, finding that can only get
fillet-corner ("root") penetration if the rod is sloped slightly
downwards - which is not in agreement with common procedure, is it?
What should I do to correct the situation?
Using 6013 rods - that's immutable - it's a UK thing. (7018 - not the
same problem - fillet corner fusion easily achieved).
Running DCEN - that's a convention in the college I attend.
Technique is 2.5mm dia (3/32nds of inch) 6013 root, 3.2mm dia (1/8th
inch) 6013 weaved single-run cap - all at 80A, DCEN
I get fillet corner fusion when the rod is tipped at a down-angle of
about 5deg to 10deg. So am burning a cavity under the rod tip and the
metal and slag are running clear, enabling unimpeded bead formation
under the tilted-up lower edge of the welding rod. Don't easily get a
flat root-bead using these conditions, but fusion and penetration is
sound.
Can't get fillet-corner root fusion with recommended condition of 5deg
to 15deg of slope-upwards. Get a lack-of-fusion defect reaching out
from the fillet corner by about a millimetre.
With up-angle, can't make arc land ahead of melt-pool, burning into
the fillet corner. With capping run, have no problem running with
5deg to 15deg of up-angle, arcing onto the "black" plate-metal
back-face and root-bead. Only root run a problem
Have sketched and scanned my welding conditions and put them to my
website at
http://www.weldsmith.co.uk/tech/welding/learn_proc/SMA/vup6013tfill_080405/080405_vup_conditions_sketch.html
Can stay with convention for the capping run, getting a good finished
fillet bead.
Thanks in advance
Richard Smith
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Posted by Private on April 5, 2008, 9:07 pm
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> Hi all
>
> For 6013 vert-up T-fillet welds, finding that can only get
> fillet-corner ("root") penetration if the rod is sloped slightly
> downwards - which is not in agreement with common procedure, is it?
>
> What should I do to correct the situation?
>
>
> Using 6013 rods - that's immutable - it's a UK thing. (7018 - not the
> same problem - fillet corner fusion easily achieved).
6013 rods belong to the group referred to as 'fast follow', the puddle will
follow the arc in a longer thinner puddle when travel speed is high. They
are a low penetration rod and most can be used with either polarity, but
with dcsp/dcen prefered as this will also give less penetration and is handy
for welding thin sheet metal. They can be used up or downhill and with
whiping or straight forward progression. They are similar to 6012. 6013
(and 7014) are good for limited input AC power transformer buzz box welders
and are popular with hobyists and farmers for this reason, (many buzz boxes
will cause 6011 & 7018 to be very sticky and hard/impossible to strike an
arc). 6013 is seldom used in industrial work but IMHO does have a place in
misc fab and repair whenever fast follow and low penetration is desired. I
carry a small amount on my rig but almost never use them. The very small
1/16" & 5/64" rods will allow a large DC machine to do very light work that
would normally be better done with a small MIG, and 3/32" & 1/8" are handy
for poor fitups and for welding thin steel sheets, particularly downhill as
this leaves your heat behind the arc and will limit distortion and
burn-through. IMHO they are a specialty rod and have no place in a school
or training environment or in serious work, IMHO 6010/11 (fast freeze, deep
penetration, dcrp/dcep) should be used in preference whenever possible.
> Running DCEN - that's a convention in the college I attend.
DCRP/DCEP will give deeper penetration and is preferred for almost all SMAW
stick welding.
> Technique is 2.5mm dia (3/32nds of inch) 6013 root, 3.2mm dia (1/8th
> inch) 6013 weaved single-run cap - all at 80A, DCEN
Published amp ranges are-
3/32" vertical 30-70A
1/8" vertical 70-120A
> I get fillet corner fusion when the rod is tipped at a down-angle of
> about 5deg to 10deg. So am burning a cavity under the rod tip and the
> metal and slag are running clear, enabling unimpeded bead formation
> under the tilted-up lower edge of the welding rod. Don't easily get a
> flat root-bead using these conditions, but fusion and penetration is
> sound.
>
> Can't get fillet-corner root fusion with recommended condition of 5deg
> to 15deg of slope-upwards. Get a lack-of-fusion defect reaching out
> from the fillet corner by about a millimetre.
>
> With up-angle, can't make arc land ahead of melt-pool, burning into
> the fillet corner. With capping run, have no problem running with
> 5deg to 15deg of up-angle, arcing onto the "black" plate-metal
> back-face and root-bead. Only root run a problem
>
> Have sketched and scanned my welding conditions and put them to my
> website at
>
http://www.weldsmith.co.uk/tech/welding/learn_proc/SMA/vup6013tfill_080405/080405_vup_conditions_sketch.html
>
> Can stay with convention for the capping run, getting a good finished
> fillet bead.
Your descriptions are excellent but, in writing it is difficult to describe
and even harder to analyze welding technique. Like comedy, in welding
timing is everything, it takes a lot of practice to understand and develop
the visual clues. A good demo is worth thousands of words.
Many of us have do not like side to side weaves in general, but (with
10/11/12/13 rods) prefer straight ahead whipping to vary drooping volt/amp
curve and allow the puddle to freeze, but some can just go in and out. For
large non-critical maximum fill, single pass welds with lo-hi (7018 etc),
many of us prefer a triangular weave (with dig for penetration and fusion at
the top point and a pause at the lower side points, just long enough to fill
and prevent undercut) and just drag high powder rods (like 14/24/28 'jet')
Critical or high strength welds should not use a weave wider than 1.5-2x rod
dia.
You do not specify the thickness of the base metal you are working with, but
I suspect that it is too thick to keep hot using 3/32" and wonder why not
use 1/8" for the first pass. If this is done as a training exercise I
suspect that you need more heat (and dcrp/dcep) with both sizes of rod.
IMHO, the first pass of a T fillet is not really a 'root pass' unless you
are making a full penetration weld in heavy plate using a V or J bevel and a
root gap.
Just my .02, YMMV
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Posted by Richard Smith on April 6, 2008, 4:11 am
Please log in for more thread options Hi Private
Really really appreciate your detailed response. It tells me things I
suspected, said from an independent viewpoint far from local customs.
The important detail I missed out - plate thickness is 6mm (1/4inch).
Regarding using 6013's in the UK - it's almost a religious orthodoxy
here. It would be like going to Vatican City to see the Pope,
explaining to him that population explosion is causing human misery in
resource-exhausted places like the Philippines and expecting him to
therefore condone a new policy that birth-control is appropriate.
One "exactly correct for purpose" use for 6013's you don't mention -
when you have to guarantee the weld will rip before the plate metal.
Useful for things like height restriction barriers to car-parks, where
you weld in an angle-iron insert at the corner between the upright and
the baseplate, so that another vehicle impact will progressively rip
the weld and cause the barrier to gracefully collapse again.
If I have to use 6013 "all the way" on a vert-up T-fillet:
- DCEP
- entire fillet weld in one go - some variant of a triangular weave
The properties of 6013 are so low that you aren't throwing any away
making one big run, are you?
Had to let my welding instructor off eating his hat when I showed I
could use these conditions with 2.5mm dia rods at 75A on 6mm plate and
get fillet corner fusion.
Not allowed to use 3.2dia (1/8th dia) rods for the root run at the
college.
DCEP vs. DCEN. It is conventionally stated that DCEP gives more pen.
I know from experience doing vertical welds on plate metal that DCEP
gives more fusion / penetration and DCEN is good for wide-gap filling
where want more metal and less heat. Swapping polarity is a means of
control which works for me.
Something I have learned the hard way here in the UK is that
recommending using other than 6013's will lead to some extreme
resentment at some point in the near future and probably cost you your
job. Someone has strongly recommended "stoving electrodes"
(6010's/6011's) on one particular site job with the Co. I am working
for now, which would have the huge advantages he describes - and I've
steered well clear - been there before...
Regards
Rich Smith
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>
> For 6013 vert-up T-fillet welds, finding that can only get
> fillet-corner ("root") penetration if the rod is sloped slightly
> downwards - which is not in agreement with common procedure, is it?
>
> What should I do to correct the situation?
>
>
> Using 6013 rods - that's immutable - it's a UK thing. (7018 - not the
> same problem - fillet corner fusion easily achieved).